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Old 05-23-2016, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,916,804 times
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Here are the various counters that prove why the present Quran cannot be exactly the same as the original recited by Muhammad [if that is a case].


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-4RH6Xv_Vs

Jay Smith referred to the earliest 6 copies of textual Quran [see below] available for investigation and they all are incomplete and has lots of errors and omissions.
1 Hijazi manuscripts
1.1 Sana'a manuscript
1.2 Codex Parisino-petropolitanus
1.3 BnF Arabe 328(c) and Birmingham fragment
1.4 Tübingen manuscript
2 Kufic manuscripts
2.1 Topkapi manuscript
2.2 Samarkand Kufic Quran

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Quranic_manuscripts
Any counters to the above?
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Old 05-24-2016, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
If you are thinking that there is no full textual copy of the original present today and any preserved Uthman Qur'an is incomplete in text then that would have been a perfect reason to have variation in recitations of millions of Hafiz all over the world.
Note the above video argued the 6 earliest available Quran are all partial and incomplete.
That is confirmed by Islamic researchers from Turkey and elsewhere.
In addition it is claimed these Qurans were not available till much later in the late 7th and 8th [?] century.
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Old 05-24-2016, 12:38 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Does any one has actual evidence of the oldest complete Quran that is exactly the same as the present Quran?

Noted this:
A Quran written in 1203, believed to be the oldest known complete copy, sold for more than £1,140,500 (Dh8,667,800) at an auction in London earlier this year.

The Quran fetched more than four times its pre-sale estimate of £250,000 (Dh1,925,000).
Auction: Ancient Qurans On Sale | GulfNews.com
Question is;
If Allah and Islam is that Great, Why there are no complete copies in the
1. 7th century
2. 8th century
3. 9th century
4. 10th century
5. 11th century
6. 12th century??

Note there were complete full copy of other texts e.g. Tanakh, NT in the 5th century and prior around the Middle East.
Since Islam originated in the Middle East why no complete Quran before 12th century?

These are the questions that raise doubts in the minds of historians.

Last edited by Continuum; 05-24-2016 at 01:02 AM..
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Old 09-26-2018, 03:44 PM
 
1 posts, read 955 times
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What the hell are you talking do you really think you will get away so you want early manuscripts of quran huh here it is wikipedia early manuscripts of quran islam awareness early quranic manuscripts the early compilation of quran as compared to old testament and new testament and final revelation blog your accusation is false based on lies after all your god permits lies he supported lie of labad
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Old 09-27-2018, 03:19 AM
 
3,461 posts, read 1,411,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zafar sharif choudhury View Post
What the hell are you talking do you really think you will get away so you want early manuscripts of quran huh here it is wikipedia early manuscripts of quran islam awareness early quranic manuscripts the early compilation of quran as compared to old testament and new testament and final revelation blog your accusation is false based on lies after all your god permits lies he supported lie of labad
This is an old thread resurrected by Zafar Sharif Choudhury (junior member). The author is stated as "not a member".

It's interesting to read the arguments about the earliest manuscripts of the Qur'an but it must be remembered that the Qur'an has been preserved from day it was revealed not only in written form but through the memory of now thousands of Hafiz (Memorizers) in many Muslim majority countries.

The fact that many Muslims memorized the Qur'an as it was revealed over a period of about 22 years, and this memorization continued over the centuries, the Qur'an is preserved word by word and letter by letter in the memory of millions of Muslims. Any old writing is just an old written material and not necessarily original manuscripts of the Qur'an. Written material can be dated but it doesn't mean nothing existed before that date. Memory of Hafiz has always existed since the days the Qur'an was revealed to the prophet.
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:06 AM
 
Location: United Kingdom
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I am certain that if the Qur'an were found to be altered, we'd all know about it by now. It would be on t-shirts, bestseller book lists, there would be TV shows, films, memes, many many memes.
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Old 11-25-2019, 01:58 PM
 
77 posts, read 14,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zafar sharif choudhury View Post
What the hell are you talking do you really think you will get away so you want early manuscripts of quran huh here it is wikipedia early manuscripts of quran islam awareness early quranic manuscripts the early compilation of quran as compared to old testament and new testament and final revelation blog your accusation is false based on lies after all your god permits lies he supported lie of labad
What he said about the Qur'an's, has nothing to do with the old and new testaments, that is another religion entirely.

One thing about these earlier versions is that many are overwritten on another document, so the age is carbon-14 dated to the paper it is written on.
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Old 11-25-2019, 02:02 PM
 
77 posts, read 14,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheresACatForThat View Post
I am certain that if the Qur'an were found to be altered, we'd all know about it by now. It would be on t-shirts, bestseller book lists, there would be TV shows, films, memes, many many memes.
actually it is a cold hard fact that it has been altered, there is no arguing about it.

But it is not politically correct to put it on TV.

Actually I would like the Sirat Rasuall Allah made into a movie.

Of course there would be bombings on the set and in the theaters.

Fatwas put on the actors, and an endless supply of people willing to do it.
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Old 11-25-2019, 03:46 PM
 
3,461 posts, read 1,411,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yasureoktoo View Post
actually it is a cold hard fact that it has been altered, there is no arguing about it.
Any evidence to back up this "cold hard fact"?
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Old 11-25-2019, 04:17 PM
 
77 posts, read 14,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Any evidence to back up this "cold hard fact"?
Actually there is a whole bunch right here on this thread with Jay Smith.

Other scholar have gone into depth about it.
Patrica Crone, Ibn Warraq etc.
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