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It's a very strange idea
Must be honest apostle
But the marriage of his son Mohammad wife is not the issue
Thread is
Is what he said true Mohammed
Or that these words attributed to Muhammad not right
But the states are fighting from the Koran
Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day
This is the subject
And I asked you to define the meaning of the infidel Alcavfr
Who is Alcavfr
as you believes
You can look at the number of types of Muhammadiyah Alssnh
They are three types
(Penalty but who fight Allah and His Messenger and spread mischief on earth to be killed or crucified or their hands and feet cut off from a dispute or deny the land it for them shame in this world and theirs in the Hereafter a great punishment) [table: 33]
You be studied this verse
And study the sanctions in this verse
Have you found any penal law in the world in which these sanctions
I will not write more
That verse enough words to explain itself
It's a very strange idea
Must be honest apostle
But the marriage of his son Mohammad wife is not the issue
Thread is
Is what he said true Mohammed
Or that these words attributed to Muhammad not right
But the states are fighting from the Koran
Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day
This is the subject
The subject we were talking about is "jihad".
You claimed that it is offensive attack on non-muslims. You have failed to quote even one verse from the Qur'aan that tells us to go and kill peaceful people of any religion or of no religion. Your claim was false.
Now you bring up another verse without the word "jihad" in it. You tell me where in this verse is the word "jihad"? Fighting is not "jihad" in the Qur'aan. Do you understand that or not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho
And I asked you to define the meaning of the infidel Alcavfr
Who is Alcavfr
as you believes
O.M.G. You can't understand simple English.
Despite my explaining in full as to what is meant by "kafir", you are still asking the same question. It means you can't understand English. Do you want me to write the answer in your language?
You can look at the number of types of Muhammadiyah Alssnh
They are three types
(Penalty but who fight Allah and His Messenger and spread mischief on earth to be killed or crucified or their hands and feet cut off from a dispute or deny the land it for them shame in this world and theirs in the Hereafter a great punishment) [table: 33]
You be studied this verse
And study the sanctions in this verse
Have you found any penal law in the world in which these sanctions
I will not write more
That verse enough words to explain itself
The word "jihad" is not even in this verse of the Qur'aan.
Actually, I do not blame the West but the western politicians and the media. West itself includes many good people. Most of them are good peaceful people.
Iraqi army is taking them out of Iraq and Syrian army is taking them out of Syria. Pakistani army is wiping them out of Pakistan. It is only a matter of time that the disease is knocked out of their brain by these three Muslim armies. We will soon see whether the apostates are the terrorists or the peaceful Muslims.
firstly, civilization clash is well-known in humanity history and the Holy Quran mentioned it and the prophet Mohammad told us through his Sunnah that this clash is to continue and gave us the prescription of how to deal with it. Islam is not violent, also Islam nowadays not in its glorious time and if Muslim were powerful, many massacres could have been avoided.
pls, refer to "And they will never cease fighting you until they turn you back from your religion (Islamic Monotheism) if they can" chapter 2, verse 217
Also, it is illegitimate for you to speak for Westerners, and use the phrase ( Most of them ) actually this is a speculation. I am as a Muslim Arab know that there are peaceful people all around the world but they are not the Governing Bodies. I guess you heard G W Bush when he said about ( Iraq Invasion) it is a " crusade war or Holy war "?
this came from the top of the state!
Finally, you speak about ISIS very innocently. you think Qaeda and ISIS are not affiliated with CIA and other agencies. this very shallow to be honest. Iraqi, Pakistani and Syrian Armies are puppet armies and the hall damn countries is a stage for many bizarre comic plays.
firstly, civilization clash is well-known in humanity history and the Holy Quran mentioned it and the prophet Mohammad told us through his Sunnah that this clash is to continue and gave us the prescription of how to deal with it.
One does not say through the Sunnah but do through the Sunnah. Sunnah is something that is done (usual practice).
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned
Islam is not violent, also Islam nowadays not in its glorious time and if Muslim were powerful, many massacres could have been avoided.
Of course Islam is not violent. It is the people that are often violent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned
pls, refer to "And they will never cease fighting you until they turn you back from your religion (Islamic Monotheism) if they can" chapter 2, verse 217
Let us not take the verses out of context and misuse them. ISIS members do just that. Even unbelievers do just that to attack Islam and the Qur'aan. We should know better. Here is the full verse:
[2.217] They ask you concerning the sacred month about fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter, and hindering (people) from Allah's way and denying Him, and (hindering people from) the Sacred Mosque and turning its people out of it, are still graver with Allah, and persecution is graver than slaughter; and they will not cease fighting with you until they turn you back from your religion, if they can; and whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies while an unbeliever-- these it is whose works shall go for nothing in this world and the hereafter, and they are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide.
As you can see, the context of the verse is Mushrikeen (polytheists) hindering people (Muslims) from entering the Sacred Mosque in Makkah and them carrying on fighting Muslims to stop them practicing their deen. This verse is not about Westerners trying to stop us from practicing our deen. Let's not blame West for what was done in Makkah 1400 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned
Also, it is illegitimate for you to speak for Westerners, and use the phrase ( Most of them ) actually this is a speculation.
It is not speculation; I speak with experience. I live with them in the West and have freedom to practice my deen. If most of them had not been good people, I could not have practiced my deen here in the West. If Arabs countries are good and Western countries are no good for Muslims, why are Arabs leaving their countries and coming to the West? It is hypocrisy to blame the Westerners and then come here to live with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned
I am as a Muslim Arab know that there are peaceful people all around the world but they are not the Governing Bodies. I guess you heard G W Bush when he said about ( Iraq Invasion) it is a " crusade war or Holy war "?
this came from the top of the state!
People even in the West know that he was wrong to invade Iraq. But one must not forget that it was Muslims in Iraq that had co-operated with him or else he could not have been able to invade Iraq. It was your fellow Arabs who had helped him to invade Iraq.
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned
Finally, you speak about ISIS very innocently. you think Qaeda and ISIS are not affiliated with CIA and other agencies. this very shallow to be honest. Iraqi, Pakistani and Syrian Armies are puppet armies and the hall damn countries is a stage for many bizarre comic plays.
Which Arab army is not the puppet army and not affiliated with the CIA? They are all same; puppets. ISIS, Al Qaida and the Taliban are not attacking only the Westerners but Muslims school children as well. Such killers of innocent people need to be taken out to stop them from killing more innocent people.
One does not say through the Sunnah but do through the Sunnah. Sunnah is something that is done (usual practice).
Who told you that ?
> Sunnah consists of acts , sayings and consent/ approval of the Prophet.
Khalif !! Are you trying to invent something here ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
Let us not take the verses out of context and misuse them. ISIS members do just that. Even unbelievers do just that to attack Islam and the Qur'aan. We should know better. Here is the full verse:
I would like you to provide the source for this explanation? Be careful not to do what you told not to do above ( give me full explanation). I simply want to know on which rule you based your argument by excluding West from this verse and even imply that this verse is outdated 1400 yrs ago!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
the context of the verse is Mushrikeen (polytheists) hindering people (Muslims) from entering the Sacred Mosque in Makkah and them carrying on fighting Muslims to stop them practicing their deen. This verse is not about Westerners trying to stop us from practicing our deen. Let's not blame West for what was done in Makkah 1400 years ago.
See above
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
People even in the West know that he was wrong to invade Iraq. But one must not forget that it was Muslims in Iraq that had co-operated with him or else he could not have been able to invade Iraq. It was your fellow Arabs who had helped him to invade Iraq.
Those who helped him is Shiites ?? Please man !
Yet, I wonder why do not stick to Crusade term and defend it rationally instead of justifying it by calling foreign example .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
Which Arab army is not the puppet army and not affiliated with the CIA? They are all same; puppets. ISIS, Al Qaida and the Taliban are not attacking only the Westerners but Muslims school children as well. Such killers of innocent people need to be taken out to stop them from killing more innocent people.
Yes Arab and Paki too, I hate both and I preserved my opiniand since decades unlike you ( in your past comment, you admired Iraqi, Syrian and Paki armies and seemed sort of confident that they could get rid of ISIS but now you changed your judgement by describing them as puppets?
Until the politicians and the Western media realize that it is them who are associating ISIS with Islam, and it is in fact counterproductive in fight against terrorism, the problem of so-called Islamic terrorism will not be eliminated.
The only way to stop groups such as ISIS, Boko Haram or Taliban from killing everyone in the name of Islam is to declare their actions unislamic and not legitimize them as Islamic and Muslims.
But of course this will not get through to the mindset that does not understand the difference between "Islamic" and "unislamic".
Look, I was reared in Milwaukee and never stepped foot in Afghanistan, a civilization far more ancient than the socio-political formation of the United States of America, and I was reared Catholic from the cradle. Albeit, I am no longer Catholic and my sympathies are with Eastern Christianity, the Orthodox.
But are you trying to tell me people that were reared Muslim from the cradle in Afghanistan were and have been waiting on me to tell them who is Muslim and who isn't, and that I am responsible for the Taliban in Afghanistan?
The Muslims ISIS have been killing have not told their killers, "Hey! STOP. You are not Muslim. We are. Behold, and convert"?
Then why haven't they told them that if that is the magic to stop all their violence?
We ought blame Catholics, Jews, and blacks for the Protestant KKK too because they all failed to inform the KKK and their sympathizers that they are neither white nor Christian.
I will say that the Western Governments have facilitated groups like ISIS, Taliban, and Boko Haram rise to power by covertly financing them and helping them obtain arms. Western Governments probably like the chaos. Saudi Arabia is a big instigator too.
firstly, civilization clash is well-known in humanity history and the Holy Quran mentioned it and the prophet Mohammad told us through his Sunnah that this clash is to continue and gave us the prescription of how to deal with it. Islam is not violent, also Islam nowadays not in its glorious time and if Muslim were powerful, many massacres could have been avoided.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
One does not say through the Sunnah but do through the Sunnah. Sunnah is something that is done (usual practice).
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned
Who told you that ?
> Sunnah consists of acts , sayings and consent/ approval of the Prophet.
Khalif !! Are you trying to invent something here ?
No.
There is no mention in the Qur'aan of "Sunnah of the prophet". The only Sunnah mentioned in the Qur'aan is the Sunnah of Allah. Therefore, Sunnah of the Prophet is a later development; an invention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned
pls, refer to "And they will never cease fighting you until they turn you back from your religion (Islamic Monotheism) if they can" chapter 2, verse 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
Let us not take the verses out of context and misuse them. ISIS members do just that. Even unbelievers do just that to attack Islam and the Qur'aan. We should know better. Here is the full verse:
[2.217] They ask you concerning the sacred month about fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter, and hindering (people) from Allah's way and denying Him, and (hindering people from) the Sacred Mosque and turning its people out of it, are still graver with Allah, and persecution is graver than slaughter; and they will not cease fighting with you until they turn you back from your religion, if they can; and whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies while an unbeliever-- these it is whose works shall go for nothing in this world and the hereafter, and they are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide.
As you can see, the context of the verse is Mushrikeen (polytheists) hindering people (Muslims) from entering the Sacred Mosque in Makkah and them carrying on fighting Muslims to stop them practicing their deen. This verse is not about Westerners trying to stop us from practicing our deen. Let's not blame West for what was done in Makkah 1400 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned
I would like you to provide the source for this explanation? Be careful not to do what you told not to do above ( give me full explanation). I simply want to know on which rule you based your argument by excluding West from this verse and even imply that this verse is outdated 1400 yrs ago!
It wasn’t the West that was trying to keep Muslims out of the Sacred Mosque in Makkah 1400 years ago. The West has never tried to keep Muslims out of Makkah at any time. Why are you misusing this verse to blame the West? The context is about those people (Mushrikeen) who were keeping Muslims out of the Sacred Mosque in Makkah and it was those people who were fighting Muslims so that the Muslims “turn back from their deen”.
You forget 2 points when you misuse 2:217:
(1) It is mentioning Muslims being kept out of the Sacred Mosque in Makkah.
(2) It is mentioning people fighting Muslims to turn them back from their deen.
West is not stopping Muslims from going to the Sacred Mosque in Makkah and the West is not fighting Muslims to turn them back from their deen. Therefore, it is dishonesty to misuse the verse 2:217 against the West.
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned
I Those who helped him is Shiites ?? Please man !
Those who were helping the West before that when Saddam was attacking Iran were Sunnis. Sunni Saudis helped the West too. Sunni or Shiites, they are all same when it comes to affiliating with the West. Each group looks for their own economic interests. One is no better than the other one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned
I Yet, I wonder why do not stick to Crusade term and defend it rationally instead of justifying it by calling foreign example .
I have never defended the “crusade term”. There has never been a Crusade on the Sacred Mosque in Makkah by the West. The verse (2:217) you had partly quoted was never about the Crusade on Sacred Mosque in Makkah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned
Finally, you speak about ISIS very innocently. you think Qaeda and ISIS are not affiliated with CIA and other agencies. this very shallow to be honest. Iraqi, Pakistani and Syrian Armies are puppet armies and the hall damn countries is a stage for many bizarre comic plays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
Which Arab army is not the puppet army and not affiliated with the CIA? They are all same; puppets. ISIS, Al Qaida and the Taliban are not attacking only the Westerners but Muslims school children as well. Such killers of innocent people need to be taken out to stop them from killing more innocent people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by resigned
Yes Arab and Paki too, I hate both and I preserved my opiniand since decades unlike you ( in your past comment, you admired Iraqi, Syrian and Paki armies and seemed sort of confident that they could get rid of ISIS but now you changed your judgement by describing them as puppets?
In haste, you failed to understand my points.
I am just highlighting what’s happening on the ground. ISIS and Taliban are killing Muslims, including Muslim children, and Iraqi, Syrian and Pakistani armies are taking them out AFTER they had attacked these armies. Arab and Pakistani armies are puppets of America. Both statements are correct.
You said, you hate both (Arab and Paki). I thought you claimed to be an Arab. Are you hateful of "Arab" and "Paki"?
By the way, the term "Paki" is a derogatory term used by racist people only. We shouldn't be using it here in this forum.
But are you trying to tell me people that were reared Muslim from the cradle in Afghanistan were and have been waiting on me to tell them who is Muslim and who isn't, and that I am responsible for the Taliban in Afghanistan?
Certainly not.
I am saying that a born Muslim is not necessarily always Muslim in their adult life. An adult is not a Muslim unless he does Islamic actions.
If someone is killing peaceful people, he will keep doing so if you call him a Muslim. He is more likely to stop if he is regarded a "kafir". A "Kafir" is someone who knowing hides the truth and attacks Muslims. ISIS and Taliban have done just that despite proclaiming to be Muslims.
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