Can the Illiterate Produce a Book or Is God Required? (verses, revelation)

[mensaguy]

It appears that there are a few people that have not read the posting rules for the Islam forum. Here are a few excerpts:

Islam Forum Posting Rules


The is not the place to post derogatory remarks about Islam, the Qur'an, or any Muslim. This forum exists for discussion about Islam and for people to ask questions about Islam. .....

We do not tolerate members calling each other liars, ignorant, and other derogatory terms. .....

Posting about Christianity is off topic in the Islam forum. (This includes Mormons) .....

If you don't want to comply with these terms, then you should feel under no obligation to post anything at all.

[truth_teller]

Originally Posted by GalileoSmith

I'm not sure if you think the speaker gives good evidence, let alone proves anything. .

The speaker wrote this amazing book and it highlight many evidences https://archive.org/details/TheAmazingQuran.pdf

[GoCardinals]

Originally Posted by GalileoSmith

It probably is not "dumb" (or dumbness). Religion generates a level of irrationality. That can look dumb to a person not engulfed in that religious belief. The origins of Mormonism, and its tenets, can look dumb to a non Mormon. The origins would likely not be found logical to anyone but someone indoctrinated into the Mormon religion. The most relevant component of the foundation of Mormonism has Joseph Smith speaking to God through stones placed in the bottom of a hat. From that alleged conversation comes The Book of Mormon, read and accepted by millions of Mormons. Joseph Smith himself is a dubious character, having been arrested for various unsavory activities such as threatening individuals, and bank fraud. Most people find the foundation of Mormonism unworthy of belief. I know I would. Yet there are a lot of very bright Mormons.

They are simply victims of a childhood indoctrination and would put up barriers against rational, objective analysis and discussion, just as Muslims do in many of these threads.

So you are saying Muslims in these threads are victims of childhood indoctrination and would put up barriers against rational, objective analysis and discussion?

Originally Posted by GoCardinals

Who is "Plain dumb"? Are you referring to the members here or followers of the Islamic faith ?

Anyone who thinks that because something is unique that it must be from God.

[GoCardinals]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

Anyone who thinks that because something is unique that it must be from God.

So you are saying that every Muslim member here who believes that Quran is unique and it is from God, is "plain dumb"?

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

The claim was that the Quran is from God and how we know this is because of the challenge to create 10 chapters like it and that no one can and as such shows that it is from God.

I don't care if someone does not want to believe the Qur'aan is from God. But I do care when someone claims that it was made up by Muhammad.

The same claim was made by kuffar 1400 years ago that the Qur'aan is made up by Muhammad. That is why the challenge followed in the Qur'aan to make up just ten chapters like it. No man could do it and promote it in parallel to the chapters of the Qur'aan. Here is the verse about the challenge:

[11.13] Or, do they say: He has invented it. Say: Then bring ten invented chapters like it and call upon whom you can besides Allah, if you are truthful.

So the challenge is in response to anyone claiming that the Qur'aan was made up by Muhammad.

Originally Posted by Khalif

I don't care if someone does not want to believe the Qur'aan is from God. But I do care when someone claims that it was made up by Muhammad.

The same claim was made by kuffar 1400 years ago that the Qur'aan is made up by Muhammad. That is why the challenge followed in the Qur'aan to make up just ten chapters like it. No man could do it and promote it in parallel to the chapters of the Qur'aan. Here is the verse about the challenge:

[11.13] Or, do they say: He has invented it. Say: Then bring ten invented chapters like it and call upon whom you can besides Allah, if you are truthful.

So the challenge is in response to anyone claiming that the Qur'aan was made up by Muhammad.

Yeah, you said more than once - we understand!

[GoCardinals]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

Even if no one can do such a thing, making the Quran a unique work, does not mean that it is from God and anyone who thinks that that conclusion follows is dumb - the principle therefore applies to anyone who think such nonsense.

"The principle" ??
Are you shooting from the hip?

What "principle" are you talking about? Which scientist or scholar came up with "this principle"? Do you have a valid reference to this principle or you just made it up by yourself?

There is no such "principle". What you stated is your opinion, expressed in a deragorty way.

Originally Posted by GoCardinals

"The principle" ??
Are you shooting from the hip?

What "principle" are you talking about? Which scientist or scholar came up with "this principle"? Do you have a valid reference to this principle or you just made it up by yourself?

There is no such "principle". What you stated is your opinion, expressed in a deragorty way.

It's a logical principle - something that does not necessarily follow. It's a non-sequitur. Again, because X is unique does not mean that it is from God. That conclusion does not necessarily follow. Again, anyone who thinks so is dumb - and yes that is my opinion - they are dumb if they think such a thing.

I'll ask you again, do you think that if the Quran is unique and that no one can create such a unique work that this means that it is from God? Instead of prancing off through the tree tops care to actually answer?

If I express that people in general are dumb if they violate logical principles and this is a violation of forum rules because they think I am calling a specif person or religion dumb as a result then this forum is worthless.

Too damn sensitive and not able to actually read what I am saying. It's Ok, I'll just bow out of this facade.