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Thank you for that Link. It further sheds light on some Jews killing the prophets as stated in both the Old Testament books and the New Testament books. The Qur'an is not alone in this issue.
Either way, nobody know which prophets were supposedly killed despite the fact that God felt it so important that he mentioned it nine times in the Qur'an minus any detail. Accusation without proof is one thing, but not even naming the victims is quite another. This puts Jews in general in a poor light that encourages Muslims to think badly of them, and they can't even defend themselves because no specifics are given. Guilty as 'charged'.
Either way, nobody know which prophets were supposedly killed despite the fact that God felt it so important that he mentioned it nine times in the Qur'an minus any detail. Accusation without proof is one thing, but not even naming the victims is quite another.
If you are not happy about it, take it up with God. Ask God to show you proof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitch49
This puts Jews in general in a poor light that encourages Muslims to think badly of them, and they can't even defend themselves because no specifics are given. Guilty as 'charged'.
I detect some needless inferiority complex here.
I don't generalise the Jews after reading the Qur'an because I understand the Qur'an better than you do.
I have been posting here for some time now. I have never thought badly of the Jews in general.
As for mention of killing the prophets, it is in the Old Testament books, in the New Testaments books as well in the Qur'an. Why then complain only about the Qur'an?
Perhaps these verses will make you feel better.
[2.40] O children of Israel! Call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and be faithful to (your) covenant with Me, I will fulfil (My) covenant with you; and of Me, Me alone, should you be afraid.
[2.47] O children of Israel! Call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations.
[45.16] And certainly We gave the Book and the wisdom and the prophecy to the children of Israel, and We gave them of the goodly things, and We made them excel the nations.
[3.113] They are not all alike; of the followers of the Book there is an upright party; they recite Allah's communications in the nighttime and they adore (Him).
[3.114] They believe in Allah and the last day, and they enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and they strive with one another in hastening to good deeds, and those are among the good.
[3.115] And whatever good they do, they shall not be denied it, and Allah knows those who are conscious (of Him).
[2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
[5.69] Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.
I would be happy to discuss those with you, except for the fact that you excluded all the verses that disparage Jews. You know, like saying they are like donkeys who can carry books but not understand them. I have yet to see a Muslim post both sides of the ledger. Be the first.
Let's start with the first 2 quotes, 2:40 and 47. But, first some context.
Mohamed had just relocated to Yathrib (which is what Medina was called before he purged it of Jews) from Mecca where he had spent 12 years trying to convince the pagans to adopt him as their new spiritual leader in a new monotheistic religion that he called Islam.
Verse 2:40 was his first sermon to the Jews, and first thing he did was to tell them to believe the Qur'an as well as the "scriptures that had come before". They didn't, and that sealed their fate.
If you summarize Mohamed's speech to the Jews, here is what you'll find:
- 40. He began by reminding them of their covenant of old with God.
- 41. Just one verse in, he tells them to "believe in what I reveal [the Qur'an]", and to practice the pillars of Islam (42-46). I find it incredible that he immediately demanded that they simply stop being Jews after thousands of years and join him in Islam. All scripture from then onward was expected, even by the Jews, to be viewed through the lens of the Qur'an under the guidance of Mohamed.
- Verses 47-73 reiterate Old Testament stories, mostly of Moses. God reminded the Jews of their history, their covenant with Him, the favors He granted them, the times He interceded on their behalf, and of their transgressions, such as worshipping the golden calf. He also accused them several times of killing His previous prophets although the supposedly slain prophets are never named and nothing in biblical nor historical accounts supports this claim. Included in these verses are 65-66 which claim that God turned some Jews into apes for breaking the Sabbath, and a warning that it could happen again, "We made it a deterrent punishment for those who were present and those who succeeded them and a lesson for those who fear Allah".
- In verses 74-120, God's displeasure with Jews, and to a lesser extent, Christians, became evident in what can only be described as a diatribe. Apparently the Jews did not heed Mohamed's earlier directive (41) to accept the Qur'an as further divine revelation, as these verses damned them for failing to do so:
- 74 "Your hearts were hardened".
- 75 "They willfully distorted the word of god".
- 76 accuses Jews of lying about being true believers.
- 79-81 accuse Jews of tampering with scripture.
- 83-88 revisit sins of the past in extremely bitter and accusatory terms, "After this it is ye, the same people, who slay among yourselves, and banish a party of you from their homes and assist (Their enemies) against them ... Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest [the Qur'an]? ... but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life? ... and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty ... These are the people who buy the life of this world at the price of the Hereafter: their penalty shall not be lightened nor shall they be helped ... And when there comes to them a Book from Allah [the Qur'an], confirming what is with them [the Bible], they refuse to believe in it, but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith. God has cursed them for their unbelief".
-90 piles on further, "Miserable is the price for which they have sold their souls, in that they deny [the Qur'an] which Allah has sent down, in insolent envy that Allah of His Grace should send it to any of His servants He pleases: Thus have they drawn on themselves Wrath upon Wrath. And humiliating is the punishment of those who reject Faith".
- 91 again asks Jews why they killed the prophets of the past.
- 92-93 complain, not for the first time, about Jews worshipping the golden calf.
- 94-96 suggest that Jews should long for death if they are indeed the 'Chosen Ones', but says they do not because they are "the greediest of mankind for life".
- 99 "We have sent down to thee [Jews] Manifest Signs [the Qur'an]; and none reject them but those who are perverse".
- 100 says Jews can not be trusted to keep their promises to God.
- 101-103 say Jews ignore God's prophets while listening to devils to their detriment.
- 105 continues this seemingly endless rebuke, "Neither those who disbelieve from the People of the Scripture nor the polytheists wish that any good [the Qur'an] should be sent down to you [Mohamed] from your Lord".
- 109 "Many Jews and Christians (People of the Book) wish they could cause you (Muslims) to backslide from Islam.
- 120 says Jews and Christians will never be satisfied until Mohamed follows their religion.
There's more, but I think that draws the picture. Verse 140 ends this series by asking the rhetorical question, "Who is more unjust than one who refuses to testify to the truth that God has given to him (including the Qur'an)?". That would be any non-Muslim.
If you had included verse 3:110 (necessary for context) along with 111, 112, and 113, it would have painted a clearer picture. Verse 110 says, "Had the People of the Book believed, it were better for them; some of them are believers, but the most of them are transgressors".
This means that those of the 'People of the Book' who have refused to accept Islam are still transgressors.
I would be happy to discuss those with you, except for the fact that you excluded all the verses that disparage Jews. You know, like saying they are like donkeys who can carry books but not understand them. I have yet to see a Muslim post both sides of the ledger. Be the first.
Stating Surah Al-Jumu'ah [62:5] does not make your case any better as you seem to not know the context it was written in. Depending on the Imam/translator, each one will give their interpretation of it for their intended audience and agenda.
If Woodrow were still here, we would have quickly put this thread to an end as we are/were people who learned Quranic Arabic for one major reason that is shared with people who can read/translate the Torah on their own: One must be able to read with understanding in it's original language so there is no loss in the translation.
To put the phrase in Judaism terms is to ask the following question: As there are 613 Mitzvot, does every Jew follow all of them? And if not, why? If they only do 612, is it considered the same as not doing them all?
fwiw, over in the Judaism forum we stopped discussing the Torah & Talmud years ago as too much was taken out of context.
The likeness of those who have been loaded with the Torah then they have not carried it, is as the likeness of an ass carrying books. Evil is the likeness of the people who have cried lies to God's signs. God guides never the people of the evildoers.
What contextual misunderstanding could there be?
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