If Islam is the best religion , why are many of the muslims criminals? (Europe)

[KrisKr]

Michael Moore wears a hat (cap) like I do. Michael is a person who cannot wait for the facts, but he has the passion of Luther.

[HsvMike]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

If you see everyone as family you could not play favourites. You cannot say this person is more family than that person, because family simply is family.
If you still can pick favourites within your family, you then are not picking them on the basis of family but on the basis of who you like.
Or let me put it this way: If favouring your family is Christian, Jesus certainly isn't a Christian.

Most people associate with people that they like, family or not. I think you are trying to hold Christians to a unattainable level and then criticize them when they can't reach that level.

The general impression I get from your post is that you do not truly know what you do not know.
Because if you did, it would not be so easy for me to come with counter arguments.

Does anyone truely know what they do not know? That isn't saying much since I am constantly throwing up counter arguments with your post.

So even you haven't practically raised your kids on your own.
Do your kids go to school? If so, they are also raised by the school.
Do they go to a sports club, if so they are also raised by people who are members of the club.
In short: only when you are the only adult and you and your kid live in total isolation from the rest of society do you raise your child on your own.

Your "in short" is ridiculous. It actually takes the responsibility off of the parents and puts it on society as a whole. Yes my kids go to school but the school does not take responsibility for my kids, I do. If something bad happens, they come to me, not handle it themselves, because I am the parent, the one responsible for them.

This whole "it takes a community to raise a child" might be good in theory, but a child is only as strong as what the parents instill into their children like values, morals, manners etc.

Then it is only your personal opinion.
There have been kids who have raised their siblings, simply because their parents felt not responsible for them.
These parents were only parents in name.

All we do is relay our personal opinions on this board. I would like to think there are a lot more good parents than bad parents, but definitely there are some bad parents out there. But yes, I am talking how I personally feel, someone else could feel completely different. To each their own.

[northsider]

I've tried but cannot find anything in the previous posts that have anything to do with the OP's question.

Perhaps I'm missing something?

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by HsvMike

Most people associate with people that they like, family or not. I think you are trying to hold Christians to a unattainable level and then criticize them when they can't reach that level.

Ah, so now you are claiming that Jesus can only be un-Christian? Or that Jesus is trying to put Christianity to unattainable levels?
Since when does being a Christian has to be easy?
Or is it your opinion that religions just should lower the bar so more people could succeed?

Does anyone truely know what they do not know? That isn't saying much since I am constantly throwing up counter arguments with your post.

LoL coming up with counter arguments that are just your opinion is easy, but coming up with counter arguments which are factual is not.
I know what I don’t know because I always question the things that I do know. And I’ve always questioned these things without ‘trusting’ the answers of others.
Your counter argument is mainly that being a Christian is hard, and it is. Because if everyone was a Christian the Bible would have said that many were called and many succeeded.
Unfortunately it doesn't say that.

This whole "it takes a community to raise a child" might be good in theory, but a child is only as strong as what the parents instill into their children like values, morals, manners etc

You just can't admit that it is you who is ridiculous can you?
Children learn more than only what their parents want to teach them. Sometimes children even learn things from their parents which they actually didn't want to teach their children (like alcoholism for example).
I only stated facts, that you find them ridiculous or don't want to agree with them is not my problem.

All we do is relay our personal opinions on this board. I would like to think there are a lot more good parents than bad parents, but definitely there are some bad parents out there. But yes, I am talking how I personally feel, someone else could feel completely different. To each their own.

Sorry, but not every personal opinion is factually true.
Some people just have a hard time with admitting that they don't know something, or that they actually are wrong, or that they haven't really given it much thought.

Originally Posted by northsider

I've tried but cannot find anything in the previous posts that have anything to do with the OP's question.

Perhaps I'm missing something?

Lotsa people have opinions about the Islam, but never have actually studied it to form an opinion.

[HsvMike]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Ah, so now you are claiming that Jesus can only be un-Christian? Or that Jesus is trying to put Christianity to unattainable levels?
Since when does being a Christian has to be easy?
Or is it your opinion that religions just should lower the bar so more people could succeed?

I never said Jesus did, I said "you" are. You just love twisting words. Jesus was perfect, the only perfect man to walk this Earth, and it is unattainable to be perfect, no one can do it. But we strive, sometimes we stumble, but we keep on trying. As far as lowering the bar, I think many religions are lowering the bar too much, just do the best you can. But when I am not exactly like Jesus ( perfect ) and you are quick to point it out, well then yes "you" are judging and condeming me for not being perfect, which yes is unattainable.

LoL coming up with counter arguments that are just your opinion is easy, but coming up with counter arguments which are factual is not.
I know what I don’t know because I always question the things that I do know. And I’ve always questioned these things without ‘trusting’ the answers of others.
Your counter argument is mainly that being a Christian is hard, and it is. Because if everyone was a Christian the Bible would have said that many were called and many succeeded.
Unfortunately it doesn't say that.

Oh ok, so all my counter arguments are opinions, and all of yours are fact. I know many counter arguments you have said that are your opinions and they have been totally wrong. Like trying to pretend to know something about a country or society you factually know nothing about.

You just can't admit that it is you who is ridiculous can you?
Children learn more than only what their parents want to teach them. Sometimes children even learn things from their parents which they actually didn't want to teach their children (like alcoholism for example).
I only stated facts, that you find them ridiculous or don't want to agree with them is not my problem.

Parents instill the building blocks for children. Of course they learn from other people, I am still learning to this very day. As I stated previously, on the subject of children, especially getting into this detail, if you don't have them, then all you have is your opinion and no facts, no experience etc. You go by the experiences of others, 2nd hand knowledge.

Sorry, but not every personal opinion is factually true.
Some people just have a hard time with admitting that they don't know something, or that they actually are wrong, or that they haven't really given it much thought.

I agree, not every opinion is a fact. There are a ton of things I don't know, and I am happy to admit that I am wrong, but when in fact I am wrong.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by HsvMike

I never said Jesus did, I said "you" are.

Did Jesus not say that many would be called but only a few would be chosen?
Does this then not imply that following Jesus would be hard?

But when I am not exactly like Jesus ( perfect ) and you are quick to point it out, well then yes "you" are judging and condeming me for not being perfect, which yes is unattainable.

I never claimed that Jesus is perfect. I have also never judged people for being imperfect, generally only Christians do this and I am not a Christian.

Like trying to pretend to know something about a country or society you factually know nothing about.

Let's face it, only people who truly know themselves are capable of truly knowing others and many people don't even know themselves.
They only think they do.
Because truly questioning yourself and others inherently also means finding answers you may not like at all.

Parents instill the building blocks for children.

True, parents are often the blueprint of a possible foundation, but they do not always remain the foundation ( especially when their children hit puberty).

[HsvMike]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Did Jesus not say that many would be called but only a few would be chosen?
Does this then not imply that following Jesus would be hard?

Yes he did, and yes it is hard, notice my "sometimes we stumble, but we keep on trying".

I never claimed that Jesus is perfect. I have also never judged people for being imperfect, generally only Christians do this and I am not a Christian.

I know, I claim he was / is perfect. You never judge huh, reread some of our last posts, I see a lot of judging as you tell me what a "real" Christian should do and how they should act. Very good at taking a shot at Christians in there as well.

Let's face it, only people who truly know themselves are capable of truly knowing others and many people don't even know themselves.
They only think they do.
Because truly questioning yourself and others inherently also means finding answers you may not like at all.

So since I know myself, then I can make generalizations about people from the Netherlands, knowing that I have never been there, because since I know myself, I must know them.

True, parents are often the blueprint of a possible foundation, but they do not always remain the foundation ( especially when their children hit puberty).

Kids are their own people. They will choose what they want to do. But, IMO, if a parent has set a good foundation ( morals, values, manners etc. ) the child has a much greater chance or succeeding and staying out of trouble.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by HsvMike

You never judge huh, reread some of our last posts, I see a lot of judging as you tell me what a "real" Christian should do and how they should act.

I said I have never judged someone for being imperfect.
This doesn't mean that I do not judge, because I find nothing wrong with judging others, as long as I judge them the same way I would judge myself.
What I said was my sentences have nothing to do with the idea that people should be perfect; people who are perfect do not need to learn and I find nothing wrong with people making mistakes because they are not perfect.
Only Christians believe that people should be perfect (from the beginning).

So since I know myself, then I can make generalizations about people from the Netherlands

I don't believe that you know yourself the way I know myself.
First of all you don't see me at all, because you keep discussing with yourself instead of me:
- I never said that Christianity is easy.
- I never said that people should be perfect.
- I never said that people aren't allowed to make mistakes because they are imperfect.
- I never said that I am an expert on Americans or American history, but I do know world history; meaning that I look at America more from a historical pov than from an ideological kind of view like most Americans.

So the thing is that you have a hard time hearing what I am actually saying (probably because you don’t like what I’m saying about Americans and / or Christianity).
Americans are just as Western as Europeans and I have been raised a Christian so at least I know what I am talking about.
I just see no reason to idealize Western society and / or Christianity.
I try not to idealize anything.

Kids are their own people. They will choose what they want to do.

Until their puberty most kids only imitate that parents, because their ego (their own identity) and will to autonomy has not yet really developed.
Like I said before people rarely truly know themselves.
Why else do so many adult people nowadays suffer from a midlife crisis?

[HsvMike]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

I said I have never judged someone for being imperfect.
This doesn't mean that I do not judge, because I find nothing wrong with judging others, as long as I judge them the same way I would judge myself.
What I said was my sentences have nothing to do with the idea that people should be perfect; people who are perfect do not need to learn and I find nothing wrong with people making mistakes because they are not perfect.
Only Christians believe that people should be perfect (from the beginning).

Well I make your last sentence totally false. Because I am a Christian and believe no one is able to become perfect on Earth.

I don't believe that you know yourself the way I know myself.
First of all you don't see me at all, because you keep discussing with yourself instead of me:
- I never said that Christianity is easy.
- I never said that people should be perfect.
- I never said that people aren't allowed to make mistakes because they are imperfect.
- I never said that I am an expert on Americans or American history, but I do know world history; meaning that I look at America more from a historical pov than from an ideological kind of view like most Americans.

Now how could you possibly know how well I know myself?

So now I am talking to myself and not conversing with you huh?

Having a good amount of historical knowledge does not replace actual knowledge of ever seeing the country or knowing how it really is.

So the thing is that you have a hard time hearing what I am actually saying (probably because you don’t like what I’m saying about Americans and / or Christianity).
Americans are just as Western as Europeans and I have been raised a Christian so at least I know what I am talking about.
I just see no reason to idealize Western society and / or Christianity.
I try not to idealize anything.

No trust me, I do hear what you are saying. But a lot of times I am sorry, but you are just wrong.

I have lived in the United States all my life and I have been to Europe and IMO Americans are a lot more well off. There is a big difference between the United States and Europe as a whole.

I try not to idealize anything as well. There are pros and cons to everything.

[northsider]

Dunno what any that stuff above has to do with the OPs question.

But anyway.... to try to reply to that OP.

Do you have figures showing that Muslims are more likely to engage in criminal activities than the followers of any other religion?

I would think that Muslims are the same as all mankind where this is concerned. I don't believe a particular religious belief throws up more criminals than any other.

I don't think criminality is based in religion at all.