Another Stoning by Religion of Peace

[elwill]

Originally Posted by brianrees

Elwill - my time is short, so I can only answer you in a few sentences for now.


I admit that I know very little about sharia law - and what I have seen is not to my liking, but I can see that it makes complete sense to you. On reading through your last posting, I may be totally wrong, but I seem to sense a deep conflict in you (with respect) over this whole business of execution. I see you not as an unkind individual, but a human being who is struggling hard to understand the darker aspect of your religion.

If this is really so, (as I suspect), you are not alone on these forums. I have been debating a very similar thing with a British lady who is very devout, but hates the cruel bits in the Old Testament as much as I do, as an atheist. Maybe you don't agree, but something inside tells me that if you were given the choice whether to execute someone or pardon them, (if it was within your power), I believe you would choose to pardon them, and let them off with a lighter sentence. You would listen to your heart - I really feel this, reading between the lines.

Must go, maybe catch up with you later.

Brian,

thank you for your words and your listenning , and this impreesion you had about me pleased me alot .


waiting for you if you have something else to say

see you later

[goldengrain]

Originally Posted by elwill

yes it is

this is the punishment of crimers for thier crime
i don't know why you (people) so angry
heck , muslims agreed with these laws and they established it in thier own country against themselfs .

or may be you need to commit a theft in islamic countries but you afraid your hands may be cut off

It is inhuman to do so to most of the world.

Then, there is a growing population of Muslims in the rest of the world and they keep making demands of governments that no other religion does.

So, they are thought of as pushy and ungrateful.

In some of these countries, they want to be ruled by Sharia, which is supposed to be the interpretation of the religion and its regulation of the behavior of individuals. Sharia is religious law.

[goldengrain]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

interesting discussion both parties are at opposites. islam believes punishment is necessary.
modern americans do not. who is correct. is confinement aka time out working?
is stoning working.

I think you are wrong.
I think many Americans would vie for reforming a person, but we make no attempt to do that, either, so we just have time out.
I also think much of crime in the US is due to drugs and gangs and people on the public payroll being on the take for drug money and look the other way. It is government corruption that is ruining this nation.
Our system has sold out to the highest bidder.
Lower officials are taking drug money from gangs.
Higher officials bend EPA, FDA, and other regulations because of favors from mega corporations.
Why else did we sign Nafta and Cafta and impose no tariffs on imported goods and allow people to be laid off en masse and jobs to be outsourced?
Why else would we have had our border with Mexico open for so long?

[goldengrain]

Originally Posted by elwill

christian arab , we have nothing to hide
quran and Hadeeth and piography of mohammed (pbuh) and and islamic books and sites are free in the internet to know the teaching of islam

why you always quote your views , from nonmuslims , arn't you smart enough to make your researches from islamic sites itself , hence i can give you pardons for your idea regarding to islam

Maybe people do not publicize what they do that is wrong. They would rather hide it. Do Muslim terrorists place applications for recruits on the internet? No. They hide this because they know most of the world condems such things. They know it is wrong and they are ashamed.

The media usually picks such things up and tells/warns the world.

[goldengrain]

Originally Posted by elwill

christian arab , we have nothing to hide
quran and Hadeeth and piography of mohammed (pbuh) and and islamic books and sites are free in the internet to know the teaching of islam

why you always quote your views , from nonmuslims , arn't you smart enough to make your researches from islamic sites itself , hence i can give you pardons for your idea regarding to islam



it's very good discribtion for what happenes by media in the west against islam and muslims , the result is you , you are programmed to hate islam .

anyway i myself attending Friday prayers from childhood and hears this words " that non_muslims will be cursed by allah in the judgement day" , but we hears most about punishments of God for unrightious muslims ( it's more important for us )
then i go home , there's no insulting or anti_christian cartoons in muslims country , because we respect the other relegions , and it's not allowed in islam for muslims to insult or show disrespect for them

by the way i live in front of church , most of my neighbour are christians , and i have many christians friends , they know that i'm believe that wrath of God will be on them in hearafter , they either believe in the same thing upon me , though this beliefs has nothing to do with respecting each other and live with each other peacely without hateness

Elwill, I reared as a fundamentalist Baptist as a child. My church taught me that Catholics prayed to saints and idols, which meant they had many gods, so they were all going to hell. It told me that my Jewish schoolmate was going to hell because she did not accept Christ as her personal savoir.

My reaction was to run from that church and that religion as fast as I could just as soon as my parents no longer controlled my religious choices.

God, or the way they presented him, was something ugly and no longer full of love.

If you REALLY believe the wrath will fall upon your neighbors and you think anything at all of them as good people, you would spend almost every waking moment trying to convert them. If you do not do this you are either uncaring of them or somewhere deep down inside you doubt that this will be your fate and are questioning that your religion is wrong in that respect.

How could a loving God create us as imperfect and then reject us because we are? He would be rejecting Himself.

I know there are 'canned' answers that every religion has for doubters, but none of them makes complete sense. The thing is, religions are also imperfect. The situation becomes that God is not something to be found in a book, but in the person. When a person behaves in a heartless and cruel way, either the criminal or the punisher, he goes against the spirit.

[elwill]

Originally Posted by goldengrain

Maybe people do not publicize what they do that is wrong. They would rather hide it. Do Muslim terrorists place applications for recruits on the internet? No. They hide this because they know most of the world condems such things. They know it is wrong and they are ashamed.

The media usually picks such things up and tells/warns the world.

i just agree with you in the last statement
"the media usually picks such thing up " , i trust you in that

by the way , you are talking about muslim terrorist ? i allready condemn muslim terrorists either
actually i'm talking about islamic teaching , not muslims terrorist

[elwill]

Originally Posted by goldengrain

It is inhuman to do so to most of the world.

increasing of criminals and crimes ratio against innocents are inhuman either regarding to islam , existing of crimers whom not fear punishment is inhuman for the society

you can consider it as an equation
be strict in punishments = decrease crimes/crimers ratio = increase of peace within society

be lenient in punishments = increase crime/crimers ratio = decrease of peace within society


each one of us focus in different point , islam focus on increasing of peace within society
rest of the world focus on lenient in punishment with crimer ( be human with crimers)

Then, there is a growing population of Muslims in the rest of the world and they keep making demands of governments that no other religion does.

you live in freedom country
may be they suffer from crimes , and they didn't find peace with secular laws !!!

In some of these countries, they want to be ruled by Sharia, which is supposed to be the interpretation of the religion and its regulation of the behavior of individuals. Sharia is religious law.

i'm just curios to know if the majority of these countries are muslims ?

[Christian Arab]

Originally Posted by elwill

christian arab , we have nothing to hide

I know, today’s radical Islam is bold and spreading it’s teachings world wide. The West is too politically correct to recognize that. I’m sure some day they will, but I have a feeling it will be too late.

Originally Posted by elwill

quran and Hadeeth and piography of mohammed (pbuh) and and islamic books and sites are free in the internet to know the teaching of islam

Which includes radicalism, but hey, that’s not the real teaching of Islam right? I mean, so what if an entire nation like Saudi is printing tens of millions of their version of the Koran, which identify Christian and Jews as the enemy of Islam. Where is the outrage?

Originally Posted by elwill

why you always quote your views , from nonmuslims , arn't you smart enough to make your researches from islamic sites itself , hence i can give you pardons for your idea regarding to islam

Do you honestly think that Islamic sites will acknowledge that Saudi funded schools and their version of the Koran promotes radicalism? Many of these sites are owned by the Saudis. But if you do believe their propaganda, then you are even more naïve than what I thought.

Originally Posted by elwill

it's very good discribtion for what happenes by media in the west against islam and muslims , the result is you , you are programmed to hate islam .

I read and watch several different news outlets, which include Arabic news, and then I make my decisions. But you can think what you like.

Originally Posted by elwill

then i go home , there's no insulting or anti_christian cartoons in muslims country , because we respect the other relegions , and it's not allowed in islam for muslims to insult or show disrespect for them

What about anti Jews? There might be no anti Christian and Jewish cartoon in Egypt, but there are some Islamic countries that run those types of cartoons and text books for kids in school. And it’s well documented, I suggest you search how well Islam “respects” other religions. I believe a few years ago 20/20 had a whole story about it.

Originally Posted by elwill

by the way i live in front of church , most of my neighbour are christians , and i have many christians friends , they know that i'm believe that wrath of God will be on them in hearafter , they either believe in the same thing upon me , though this beliefs has nothing to do with respecting each other and live with each other peacely without hateness

Great, I had many Muslims friends, too. What’s your point? The problem I see is extremists are taking the word/message too literally, and harming the non-believers while the so-called moderates are sitting on their hands doing little to nothing to combat it.