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But in countries that live under sharia law they are certainly the henchmen of the imams, no?
After all -- what is sharia law if not the law of Islam?
And of course, what is the mutawan if not an arm of the imams in saudi arabia?
The fact that the mutaween have long acted with this kind of impunity makes many Saudis skeptical that the ruling al-Saud clan will hold them accountable to the rule of law. Such a move would entail taking on the overall religious establishment, which controls the mosques, the judiciary and various education departments as well as the morality police Vice Squad - TIME
But educate me, elwill -- and I mean that most sincerely. If sharia law is not islamic, then why is it practiced in Islamic societies? If honor killings are not justified by local imams, then why are the men who kill their daughters/wives/sisters left unpunished in Islamic socieities?
That is an excellent question Camping. Honor killings are despicable, and are not justified in the Quran, to my knowledge. It is shameful how many are carried out with no justice for the victim. Men get away with these heinous crimes right and left and I am not sure why they are allowed to do so.
Your question certainly is valid. But unfortunately I cannot answer it, because it makes absolutely no sense to me.
I think we all need to realize that some groups of people are so thoroughly indoctrinated with heinous cultural practices that they are never going to be able to function as civilized people outside their own culture.
Which groups?
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Originally Posted by anifani821
Let's face it. This guy put on a good front but deep down, he was just as sick as the radical Islamists that slap on bombs and blow themselves - and anyone else around them- into bits and pieces.
Yes, there is clearly something wrong with this man. Clock not ticking up there.
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Originally Posted by anifani821
There is something very disturbing about how we all seem to simply flip this off as - oh well - cultural and social - nothing we can do about it. This guy promoted himself to the community as a moderate and a SAFE PERSON TO BE AROUND. He was anything but that.
What do you propose we "do" about it?
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Originally Posted by anifani821
I have always wanted to believe that it was stereotypic thinking to assume that most Muslims really are the nutballs we see doing this stuff . . .
It is stereotypical. "Most" Muslims are NOT nutballs doing this stuff...
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Originally Posted by anifani821
but this guy's actions have made me wonder if it is all just sugar-coating - and if the violence is so endemic in Muslim society that at the core, any of them will lash out and cut any of our throats.
If you are going to look at all Muslims that they may cut any of our throats at any minute then you need to start looking at all men like they may rape us at any moment, at all poor looking people like they may rob us any time, at every lawyer like he may screw us over (same for car salesmen), at all priests like they are pedophiles, etc. etc. etc.....
"Any of them may lash out and cut any of our throats."
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Originally Posted by anifani821
SO you might say . . . by his actions . . . this horrible man has done more to solidify in many of our minds that the stereotype is not a stereotype at all - but rather, the reality.
No, only for people who already had their minds made up. For those of us who don't irrationally fear ALL Muslims, we recognize this man as an unstable individual who committed a crime. Someone who is not the norm at all.
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Originally Posted by anifani821
ETA: and before Islam apologists jump on me to say this guy was an exception . . . really? Beheading? That is a custom deeply rooted in Muslim culture.
If this is true, then what would people in countries say about our love affair with guns and how many people in this country get killed by being shot? That it is a custom deeply rooted in American culture???
Dead is dead, in a variety of ways.
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Originally Posted by anifani821
And this guy had gone to great lengths to make himself a public figure, and promote himself and his community.
Yes he did. It appears he tried to do something good for his religion. Tried. And failed miserably. I'd say that his latest actions more than erased any good he may have accomplished.
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Originally Posted by anifani821
It is like he was working very hard at convincing us all that he was a mainstream citizen, and wanted to build bridges b/n the muslim community and everyone else. That is what makes this whole situation so disturbing - he was trying to convince everyone that he was not a radical - yet his actions tell a totally different story.
From what I have read, it does not appear that he is a radical, but it does seem that he's a nutcase.
If my DH murders me tomorrow, which may be likely as some people have warned that it is deeply rooted in his culture and religion, and that at any moment he may lash out and behead me, especially since I still have not removed all the knives from the kitchen, I would say this: Islam is not to blame, nor does it justify his actions. Simple as that.
Don't shoot the messenger. I have heard many people on this board claim that violence in Islam is limited primarily to Jihad Radicalists. Just pointing out the fact that it is NOT limited to a radical few but increasingly moderates as well.
I find this to be a foregone conclusion.
Violence in any religion is not always limited to 'radical' or 'moderate' -- anyone has the capacity for violence, regardless of faith.
But in countries that live under sharia law they are certainly the henchmen of the imams, no?
After all -- what is sharia law if not the law of Islam?
And of course, what is the mutawan if not an arm of the imams in saudi arabia?
the only evidence you showed me is merely accedent happened in 2002 i think , not laws at all .
there are bad policmen in every country , isn't it right ? there are policemen in your country commit crimes against the laws they supposed to defend , isn't it right ? and some of them using thier authority for not to be punished .
imams in islam as the priests in christianity , they have the islamic teaching not the authority over governments decesion nor have the ability to control personal's faults
BTW , as long as we are talking about honour killing , tell me is this accedent have nothing to do with honour killing
is those policemen killed thier sisters or thier mothers ?
your evidence have nothing to do with our subject , beside no one in the name of islam justified what happened in this accedent
Quote:
But educate me, elwill -- and I mean that most sincerely. If sharia law is not islamic, then why is it practiced in Islamic societies? If honor killings are not justified by local imams, then why are the men who kill their daughters/wives/sisters left unpunished in Islamic socieities?
when you proove to me that honour killing is allowed in shariah law , you have my promise to answer your question
untill you proof for me your proclaims , you need to ask yourself why your God command you to commit honour killing over your children and why you disobey his commands
Yes, there is clearly something wrong with this man. Clock not ticking up there.
What do you propose we "do" about it?
It is stereotypical. "Most" Muslims are NOT nutballs doing this stuff...
If you are going to look at all Muslims that they may cut any of our throats at any minute then you need to start looking at all men like they may rape us at any moment, at all poor looking people like they may rob us any time, at every lawyer like he may screw us over (same for car salesmen), at all priests like they are pedophiles, etc. etc. etc.....
"Any of them may lash out and cut any of our throats."
No, only for people who already had their minds made up. For those of us who don't irrationally fear ALL Muslims, we recognize this man as an unstable individual who committed a crime. Someone who is not the norm at all.
If this is true, then what would people in countries say about our love affair with guns and how many people in this country get killed by being shot? That it is a custom deeply rooted in American culture???
Dead is dead, in a variety of ways.
Yes he did. It appears he tried to do something good for his religion. Tried. And failed miserably. I'd say that his latest actions more than erased any good he may have accomplished.
From what I have read, it does not appear that he is a radical, but it does seem that he's a nutcase.
You asked what to do about it? How about stop defending them and speak out against the violence taking place in the Muslim religion. That's the first step......realizing that Islam has a violent side and lending a voice to those who have none.
Don't think I ever said that. It is most definitely about Islam/Muslims.
Well, at least you openly admit to your bigotry then. Too bad it's misplaced. A person who is capable of killing another person can do it religion nothwithstanding. And Judeo/Christians are just as bad as any other group about it.
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