Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Robyn55, maybe my house is in a microclimate and I know my mother has one of the best green thumbs in the city (she runs the Root Ball and Cummer Garden Week for crying out loud), but I convinced her to include some more tropical foliage in certain areas of the yard, that I myself planted (she prefers northern plants and cottage garden styles). We have schefflera growing on the side of our house (I know about the root system and it hasn't been a problem), Norfolk Islands that are approaching 20 ft tall in only a few years (and there are taller in the neighborhood that are 40-50 ft tall, but hidden amongst the oaks...perfectly Christmas tree shaped without freeze damage), and our citrus has always done fine. We had one orange tree that froze and turned bitter more than a decade ago, but since then no problems. I can go on with examples, but we even had a foxtail growing nicely for a while (before last winter).
It takes a microclimate and a green thumb, but here in Jacksonville it is possible to venture further south than local garden stores say is possible, and a green thumb is definitely necessary, but rose gardens and northern cottage gardens are definitely possible here in Jacksonville (more difficult in S FL).
I used to sell Cutco a long time ago and went to basically everyone's house that I knew, and I always got garden tours, and you would be surprised the things people are able to grow here in Jacksonville. What I have noticed is that there hasn't really been an explosion of more tropical plantings until just the past 5 years. You know at one point Miami had the same fauna as Jacksonville, and Florida royal palms grew wildly as far up as Astor. One of the Australian Pine species has also made its way up to St. Johns and Duval counties, and that is not very freeze tolerant.
I was in Costco today - and saw some of those small Norfolk Island "Christmas trees". Label basically said "no good below 45 degrees". The problem with plants in inappropriate places is that they may do well for a while - but they eventually have problems. The biggest problem with Norfolk Island pines in south Florida isn't that they die from the cold - but they don't stand wind storms or lightning strikes - and cracking/falling limbs and trunks damage property and power lines.
I don't think I'd plant *any* 100 foot tree anywhere near my house. I have about 6 tall pines about 50 feet or more away from the house. Probably should have taken them down when we cleared the land - but they had beautiful shapes - and gave the yard a lot of dimension and undercover. We used to have about 11. Lost 3 to insects - and 2 to lightning. When one of the trees had a direct lightning strike - it blew the top off - and sent chunks of wood flying over 50 feet in all directions. FWIW - a good tree guy will charge about $500 to remove a tall pine that has to be taken down in pieces - more (sometimes a lot more) for a larger tree like a live oak.
To me - there is no such thing as a green thumb. Certain plants won't do ok in certain places - period - end of story. It either gets too hot - or too cold - or we don't have enough chill hours (for many fruit trees) - or the soil is too acid - or too alkaline - or we have too much sun - or too much shade. So you experiment - live and learn. Good example on my property is camellias. Early season Sasanquas are usually great. Late season Japonicas are always horrible. Other plants will do ok with a ton of work/maintenance (the latter generally including lots of water - pesticides - and fertilizers). An example of the latter is many northern type roses here. There's a woman in ML who does beautiful roses - but she pretty much makes it her life's work. Another example is my late mother – a bonsai master – who was somehow able to grow things like black pine in south Florida. I did get some of my mother’s “less worthy” bonsai (her best went to Morakami Gardens). Including some Japanese azaleas (which shouldn’t grow here (much less in south Florida). But I haven’t killed them yet. Although they seem perpetually confused about when they should bloom.
Note that my late mother loved her plants so much that she never followed watering rules. She watered/misted her orchids (she grew them too) about 3 times a day in the summer. On my part - I think she should have been entitled to do this if she was willing to pay the price for water. But the law said she was doing something illegal.
Anyway - I like the things that give you the most bang for the buck - great results with a little TLC. I do plant relatively inexpensive tender tropicals (like Porterweed) every spring - but am prepared to lose them every winter and replant in the spring. It's kind of fun - because my garden looks different very year. I think a big issue now is water - especially in light of our current light drought. Some plants that used to do fine here in the summer watering every other day don't do well watering twice a week. So I'm not planting them anymore. I do hand water those things that I would ever so much hate to lose (like my mother's bonsai). But hand water almost an acre. Thanks but no thanks .
Finally - note that some plants are not only "exotic" here. They're pests. Like Australian Pines. Everyone in Miami was happy when they blew down in Hurricane Andrew - and most were never replanted. We have lots of other pesky exotics - Schefflera is one of them. And more are added to the list every year (like "Mexican Petunias" recently hit the list). Just because it grows here doesn't mean you should plant it. A good rule of thumb is to stick to native stuff - or non-native stuff that doesn't harm anything else and is easy to control. When in doubt - check a Florida Ag website for the lists of exotic nuisance plants and trees. Robyn
Sunday night I made my last batch of pesto with the knowledge that this freeze was coming.
I picked my Meyers lemons, too, though I was wondering if they would have been fine if I just covered them up? I did cover the plants with towels.
Isn't this hard freeze a lot earlier than last year and the year before?
Anyway, we have all native plants except for our humungous tree fern, which always sustains awful damage yet always comes back every summer.
I made my last batch of pesto a couple of weeks ago. Basil didn't do at all well this year. Summer was too dry. Got about 1/3 my normal yield. Wasn't too sorry - since the price of pine nuts has really gone through the roof!
I had a Meyer lemon tree once - and it froze below the graft (time for the trash). Year before it froze - we had a northeaster - and all the little "lemon buds" blew off about late March. So no crop for that whole year. Overall - if I want some Meyer lemons now - it's easier for me to buy them in Whole Foods.
This is a really early hard freeze. Only way I remember that is I have early Sasanqua Camellias (they usually bloom late November through late December and look great). This is the first time I can remember in 15 years that the cold hit them so hard when they were in full bloom.
FWIW - I don't think we got all that cold for that long last night. Only one birdbath had ice - and it was just a little (that's my freeze indicator - the birdbaths - we have a temperature monitor - but it's on the back porch in an area that's surrounded by walls in the house). Think tonight might be a different story. Last year - there were many mornings when I sent my husband out with a tea kettle of boiling water to defrost the bird baths. The birds here seem to get very confused when water freezes. Robyn
Yup, Ive been in SW Minnesota for many years now
No, I don't think your a bunch of whimps. I remember only three weeks ago we were experiencing our first hard freeze after being in the 60's and 70's and thinking that highs in the 40's were the end of the world. It happens every year, but you quickly get used to it. The good thing is that now anything over freezing feels balmy!
I planted a southern magnolia in my yard this Spring, hoping it will survive the winter, so I am guilty of planting plants that dont belong. I get pleanty of butterflies and humming birds in my sunflower garden every year, so no tropical herbs needed here
I plant the herbs to cook with - not for the animals (except for parsley - which a lot of caterpillars here like to eat). FWIW - we have some herbs that do great here in summer - but others that only do ok during cool or cold weather. For example - I grow sorrel - which - in the summer - screams "help me - help me". It's starting to look mighty fine now.
Also - there are seasonal veggies/fruits that only do ok here after we've had some cold weather. Citrus is one example. Another is greens - like collards. Do you get those in your local markets? If interested - I can give you a traditional New Year's Day menu from the south. Really healthy. Really easy (perfect to do even with a day after New Year's Eve hangover while you're watching the Rose Bowl Parade ). It's a superstitious menu - you eat this for health - this for wealth - etc. - etc. Although I'm Jewish - and wasn't born in the south - I figure cooking some good eats can never hurt - particularly if they're eats with mysterious qualities. Anyway - I cook my greens and hoppin' john and cornbread every New Year's Day - and - so far - so good!
I have a couple of good friends in Minnesota. So I know what you mean about the weather. Although one has 5 kids at home - and by the beginning of February - he is starting to fantasize full time about a trip to Hawaii. Robyn
P.S. Have only been to Minnesota twice. To Mayo. With some drives in the countryside and stays in Minneapolis to visit with friends on the side (who wants to spend a whole trip doing medical stuff?). Mighty nice looking farms - like out of a picture book (especially compared to the south) - and the Walker Art Center is world class. OTOH - you couldn't get me there in January unless my life depended on it .
Try telling my mother there is no such thing as a green thumb. There are few home gardens in Jacksonville that have been featured anywhere, let alone gardens planted without the aid of "help", and she can lay claim to that. I never understood it myself, but there are people tha literally should not be allowed near a kitchen or allowed to handle plants. Some people never pick those things up in life. I have an interest in plants myself, but different plants from my mother. She prefers native plants and northern plants, and I had to convince her to let me experiment with tropical plants in hidden areas of the yard (she lived in Miami for a while and got sick of yearlong "sameness"...her gardens now have 4 different arrays depending on the season). Robyn55, I know you don't have an affinity for trees and such, but if you want to see native plants and beautiful trees, you must venture inland. Having spent a lot of time at the beach and even in Marsh Landing, the planters across the ditch do not plant very many native plants (and just because it thrives in our climate does not mean it is actually native).
Just looked at the 10 day forcast for Atlanta, and Monday and Tuesday the highs aren't getting out of the 20s with lows in the low teens, so I checked Jacksonville and it looks pretty bad...low 20s, even along the coast. This winter is earlier and more brutal already than most winters in recent memory with the exception of last year (which didn't start until January at least). Record breaking winter into record breaking summer back into another record breaking winter...what the hey is going on?
I plant the herbs to cook with - not for the animals (except for parsley - which a lot of caterpillars here like to eat). FWIW - we have some herbs that do great here in summer - but others that only do ok during cool or cold weather. For example - I grow sorrel - which - in the summer - screams "help me - help me". It's starting to look mighty fine now.
Also - there are seasonal veggies/fruits that only do ok here after we've had some cold weather. Citrus is one example. Another is greens - like collards. Do you get those in your local markets? If interested - I can give you a traditional New Year's Day menu from the south. Really healthy. Really easy (perfect to do even with a day after New Year's Eve hangover while you're watching the Rose Bowl Parade ). It's a superstitious menu - you eat this for health - this for wealth - etc. - etc. Although I'm Jewish - and wasn't born in the south - I figure cooking some good eats can never hurt - particularly if they're eats with mysterious qualities. Anyway - I cook my greens and hoppin' john and cornbread every New Year's Day - and - so far - so good!
I have a couple of good friends in Minnesota. So I know what you mean about the weather. Although one has 5 kids at home - and by the beginning of February - he is starting to fantasize full time about a trip to Hawaii. Robyn
P.S. Have only been to Minnesota twice. To Mayo. With some drives in the countryside and stays in Minneapolis to visit with friends on the side (who wants to spend a whole trip doing medical stuff?). Mighty nice looking farms - like out of a picture book (especially compared to the south) - and the Walker Art Center is world class. OTOH - you couldn't get me there in January unless my life depended on it .
I like southern food as well. Actually, my family (parents, grand parents) are origionally from the south and some still live there, so we do not really cook any of the scandinavian/Minnesota dishes that are specialties up here.
Yes, you can get collard greens in the markets up here, in fact some people grow them. There are also specialty restaurants in the Twin Cities that will serve them southern style. I grow Kohlrabi, lettuce, spinach along with the usualy tomatoes, carrots, watermellons and such. So we can grow just about anything other than citrus or tropical items thanks to our hot, humid summers that end abrubtly in the Fall. In fact, my neighbors have peach trees that grow fruit annually. (northern Minnesota is probably a differnt story).
I would not recommend coming here in January either, that is when we usaully see the sub-zero days. The winters are a month too long for me and by Feb. I want the hot weather back. At least I know spring is right around the corner by then. I always say, If you can take January out of the calander, Minnesota would be the ideal climate for me (and probably alot of other people to).
Try telling my mother there is no such thing as a green thumb. There are few home gardens in Jacksonville that have been featured anywhere, let alone gardens planted without the aid of "help", and she can lay claim to that. I never understood it myself, but there are people tha literally should not be allowed near a kitchen or allowed to handle plants. Some people never pick those things up in life. I have an interest in plants myself, but different plants from my mother. She prefers native plants and northern plants, and I had to convince her to let me experiment with tropical plants in hidden areas of the yard (she lived in Miami for a while and got sick of yearlong "sameness"...her gardens now have 4 different arrays depending on the season). Robyn55, I know you don't have an affinity for trees and such, but if you want to see native plants and beautiful trees, you must venture inland. Having spent a lot of time at the beach and even in Marsh Landing, the planters across the ditch do not plant very many native plants (and just because it thrives in our climate does not mean it is actually native).
Just looked at the 10 day forcast for Atlanta, and Monday and Tuesday the highs aren't getting out of the 20s with lows in the low teens, so I checked Jacksonville and it looks pretty bad...low 20s, even along the coast. This winter is earlier and more brutal already than most winters in recent memory with the exception of last year (which didn't start until January at least). Record breaking winter into record breaking summer back into another record breaking winter...what the hey is going on?
I don't know what you mean about no affinity for trees. This is about 1/3 of our back yard. Lots of trees. All different kinds. All different sizes. None planted. Every year we get a lot of pruning done - cut down dead trees (except for some nice snag trees) - and I pick out the seedlings that will live - and those that won't. Right plant - right place doesn't mean you have to live in a barren wasteland.
And yes - the weather report next week looks absolutely brutal (I feel really sorry for the farmers ). Robyn
That is no comparison to the tree coverage in town, sorry. There is a disadvantage with having such trees (damage during storms and expenses to take down when old), but the tree coverage in town is a lot thicker and there is no question about it. Take your pine trees, add some fully grown live oaks, maybe a couple of hickory or water oaks, some 50-60 ft. tall magnolias (the ones at the beach and in the burbs are usually young and still small), some old canary island date palms and other mature palms, and in the case of our backyard, we have four fully grown cottonwoods that are taller than the pines (they lose their leaves each year).
That is no comparison to the tree coverage in town, sorry. There is a disadvantage with having such trees (damage during storms and expenses to take down when old), but the tree coverage in town is a lot thicker and there is no question about it. Take your pine trees, add some fully grown live oaks, maybe a couple of hickory or water oaks, some 50-60 ft. tall magnolias (the ones at the beach and in the burbs are usually young and still small), some old canary island date palms and other mature palms, and in the case of our backyard, we have four fully grown cottonwoods that are taller than the pines (they lose their leaves each year).
Your backyard does look peaceful, though
True. People in town don't pay for any tree maintenance. It costs a lot. So everything is overgrown - like weeds. Kind of like Coconut Grove before Hurricane Andrew (where people wouldn't pay for tree maintenance either). And then when we get even a teeny tiny tropical storm - the overgrown stuff falls down - brings down power lines - falls on roofs - etc. Can't remember exactly which tropical storm it was - but there were huge piles of tree branches/parts lined up in front of houses in Riverside/Avondale for months. And the stuff really started to stink before the COJ finally picked all of it up (that area doesn't seem to have decent yard trash pickup - our stuff was done in 2 pickups after that storm - and we only pay about $16/quarter for twice weekly trash pickup - and once a week recycling and yard trash pickup - what do trash people in JAX make - $100k a year ).
Like I said - this is 1/3 of our yard. Lots of different stuff. All sizes. Age = about 1-50 years. But we hire people to prune everything and thin it out once a year (when you thin out something like an oak - it resists wind a lot better). Costs us about $2k/year. Good tree husbandry costs money. And I really resent paying extra in insurance costs for people who won't spend money to prune or maintain their trees. Overgrown is bad IMO - whether it's trees or anything else (remember the fires in Palm Coast in 1998-99 - it was just one big tinderbox of overgrown stuff). Robyn
P.S. The picture I posted was a spring picture. Everything is fuller by the winter - after a summer of growth - and then we prune it again in the spring.
Robin, your backyard is gorgeous!
I had first summer here. Had planted little garden. Not much luck with tomatoes, but had tonnes of cucambers and basil.
Thanks. It's quite a change for people who lived most of their adult lives in high rise condos in Miami.
I never had luck with tomatoes. Birds always got to them before I did.
And I had a bad basil crop this year. Too dry. Should have watered more by hand. FWIW - I use these "whiskey" barrels (below) for seasonal plantings - herbs - etc. They're fiberglass - not wood - and you can find them in Home Depot. Unlike wood - they will outlive all of us (first year here I tried real whiskey barrels - termites destroyed them in less than a year). Note that even the "wood" stepping stones are made out of concrete! Robyn
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
.
(except for parsley - which a lot of caterpillars here like to eat). FWIW - we have some herbs that do great here in summer - but others that only do ok during cool or cold weather. For example - I grow sorrel - which - in the summer - screams "help me - help me". It's starting to look mighty fine now.
). Robyn
