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Lordy. You're only looking at things at face value just on the surface. Don't. If you'll research, you'll know that the Skyway was never even close to being completely built out (like it was originally planned). It basically goes from nowhere to nowhere. It was a horribly executed plan, not to mention, one of the most expensive modes of public transportation you could build. I personally think it was set up to be a failure considering there were so many other alternatives out there that were cheaper & more feasible to actually build out & be useful for the entire city (light rail for one).
I'd also point you in the direction of some Jacksonville history books & look at what kind of streetcar system we used to have. It was awesome, went practically everywhere & was considered the best in the south. That's not even counting the train station at Jax terminal. And this was all when cars were around & sharing the road with them.
And here is the streetcar lines we had in the 1930s. Not too shabby, eh:
Point is, public transportation can & does work, if implemented correctly (something we obviously have trouble with here & in the south in general these days).
P.S. Im not even saying that this high speed rail line was the best idea ever, but it seems like a lot of you people are against decent public transportation no matter what it is. I mean, do you LIKE being bent over by the oil, insurance & auto racket every day, left with no options?? You must.
That's really pretty, actually I love the palms and what looks to be grassed over tracks. Functional without sacrificing nature or beauty. Me likes
Lordy. You're only looking at things at face value just on the surface. Don't. If you'll research, you'll know that the Skyway was never even close to being completely built out (like it was originally planned). It basically goes from nowhere to nowhere. It was a horribly executed plan, not to mention, one of the most expensive modes of public transportation you could build. I personally think it was set up to be a failure considering there were so many other alternatives out there that were cheaper & more feasible to actually build out & be useful for the entire city (light rail for one).
I'd also point you in the direction of some Jacksonville history books & look at what kind of streetcar system we used to have. It was awesome, went practically everywhere & was considered the best in the south. That's not even counting the train station at Jax terminal. And this was all when cars were around & sharing the road with them.
And here is the streetcar lines we had in the 1930s. Not too shabby, eh:
Point is, public transportation can & does work, if implemented correctly (something we obviously have trouble with here & in the south in general these days).
P.S. Im not even saying that this high speed rail line was the best idea ever, but it seems like a lot of you people are against decent public transportation no matter what it is. I mean, do you LIKE being bent over by the oil, insurance & auto racket every day, left with no options?? You must.
Wow, hey I am all for public transportation, I would just like to make sure the project has an eye for the prize for the future. I will support any project that does. Jacksonville has gone from a vibrant downtown years ago that needed public transportation to a time where the downtown can't support what we have had in the past.
That's really pretty, actually I love the palms and what looks to be grassed over tracks. Functional without sacrificing nature or beauty. Me likes
Yeah, it was gorgeous. I also liked that the tracks ran down the median, and on each side were room for the cars, bikes, etc, with sidewalks for pedestrians. Everyone had their own space & it was fair. Now, of course, that doesn't exist. Not here anyway. New Orleans has some similar looking lines now that are still going strong.
Jacksonville was actually part of "The Great American Streetcar Scandal" where GM, Firestone, Standard Oil (and others who benefited from automobiles) formed a company called National City Lines, went in to a bunch of cities & bought out their streetcar companies & ran them into the ground. This was all to sell more cars & push us to a bus system (instead of streetcars that ran on electric on dedicated rail). This happened all over the nation & is a big reason why we've become such a car-reliant country. Of course there was suburban sprawl, white flight & such that didn't help either. Interesting, no?? They were all found guilty of conspiring to monopolize, but by then it was too late.
These systems would have most definitely been updated throughout history to stay current & would have been built out to serve the suburbs as well. Now, we have to start completely over from scratch.
Anyways, anyone who's interested in the history of all of this stuff, PBS ran a great documentary back in the 1996 called Taken For A Ride. There's a download link here: Taken For A Ride (1996).avi - Documentary about the destruction of public transportation in America. I think everyone should see this whether you're for or against public transit just to get a better perspective on what we once were & what we've become. Then compare it to the rest of the modern world.
That link should be OK to post here since its so old, not for sale anywhere & was on public broadcast.
As someone who didn't support either candidate, my only response is HUH? He's only been in office for let's see now... 5 weeks! Were you wishing for McCain 5 weeks after Obama took office?
I have mixed feelings about this, but can not fault Scott for his decision. I think this high speed rail project would have been nice, but the cost was way too high. And, who was going to use it anyway? Most tourists already have a plan to travel from point A to point B to point C, etc. Rental cars are cheap in Florida.
The number of Floridians who would actually use it are not enough to shake a stick at. I believe that a better use of money would be to widen I-4 so that more people can get from Tampa to Orlando quickly. And, it would help Floridians as much as tourists.
If high speed rail was really a big deal then Disney would be willing to fund it themselves.
Not only that, think of the private rental car employees who would be out of work. And who exactly would be getting the jobs? Government subsidized employees, paid by none other than US, the taxpayers!!
Think of the private restaurants all along the jaunt who would no longer get business travelers going from point A to point B, and when they shut down, those employees lose their jobs.
Think of the mom and pop gift shops going out of business.
The more I think about it, the more this looks like a plan to move more private enterprise jobs over to federal employee jobs, hence ensuring more votes when election time rolls around.
I'm not sure why this is in the JAX forum - since the rail line in question is between Orlando and Tampa. I read the whole thread - and many messages lack focus IMO.
The only issue IMO is whether an expensive rail line between Tampa and Orlando makes any sense at all even in the best of economic times (and these are certainly far from the best in terms of federal/state/local budgets) - regardless of who's paying for it (I happen to be a federal and state taxpayer - and I do think Don has a point - although stated somewhat inelegantly - that people who don't pay federal taxes - more than 50% of people in the US these days - can express their opinions - but they don't count for much in his opinion - or mine either for that matter). These are difficult economic times - and spending for things has to be prioritized. We can't run trillion dollar deficits forever.
My husband and I have lived in Florida for 40 years now. And - while working - both of us traveled a lot to Tampa from Miami. Basically 2 kinds of trips. Flights into Tampa airport - where meetings were held at the airport (it has great meeting facilities - the Florida Bar is big on state-wide committee meetings and the like at the Tampa airport). Or flying into Tampa airport and renting a car to go elsewhere. In my case - that was basically the 2nd District Court of Appeal in Lakeland - and sometimes a hearing in a trial court in the general area. In my husband's case - he'd fly if it would be a hearing - but drive for a trial (trials usually lasted 2-3+ days). I reckon a young lawyer in Miami or JAX would do the same now.
So who would use this train? Not business people like me and my husband from other parts of the state. People who work in Orlando who are seeking to slurb Orlando even more than it's slurbed now (from the western part of the Orlando metro area all the way to Tampa)? Doubt many tourists. Especially from Europe. They love our nice big wide highways and our cheap rental cars and our cheap (by their standards) gas.
As for Congressman Mica - well he's my Congresscritter (gerrymandering since I'm in St. Johns County) - and I voted for him. But this is pretty much a local pork project for him IMO.
Like some of you here - I'm not totally against rail projects. Just use our limited funds to improve or build them where they make at least a little sense. The Orlando/Tampa line is not quite the Alaska "Bridge to Nowhere" - but it's close.
And for those of you in south Florida who have spoken. I have a suggestion. There is a whole lot - a ton - of crummy underutilized houses - lots and and land everywhere in south Florida. Like all the stuff north of downtown MIA. There is a lot of opportunity for urban infill there - and I would rather pay a couple of dollars in taxes to subsidize that than to subsidize people who want to work in Miami but won't tolerate living in Miami and want to live in Broward or Palm Beach County. You work in Miami - you live in Miami. Or spend half your life on I-95. I lived and worked in Miami for about 25 years. You don't want to do that - go elsewhere. Don't ask me to subsidize your rail line to some high class suburb in Palm Beach County.
Anyway - for those of you in favor this PARTICULAR rail line - I request you do the following - here. Write a short essay or bullet point presentation on why any federal/and or local taxpayers should pay any money for it. What are the benefits? (And please don't mention generalities - like how you favor rail - and how it will tie into other lines - justify the expenditure of any taxpayer dollars on this particular line between Orlando and Tampa.) Am looking forward to your responses . Robyn
P.S. As a muni bond investor - I follow municipal finances - very closely these days - and think this whole thing is totally dumb. We (like many states) will owe the feds millions and millions this year to repay the money we borrowed from them to pay unemployment benefits the last couple of years. For the sake of the financial future of our state - why can't we use the rail money offered to us for a line that doesn't make any sense IMO - to repay the money the feds loaned us - and call it a day? It would put our state on a more secure financial footing - and I doubt there are 5 people in the whole world who would miss a high speed line between Orlando and Tampa.
[And for those of you in south Florida who have spoken. I have a suggestion. There is a whole lot - a ton - of crummy underutilized houses - lots and and land everywhere in south Florida. Like all the stuff north of downtown MIA. There is a lot of opportunity for urban infill there - and I would rather pay a couple of dollars in taxes to subsidize that than to subsidize people who want to work in Miami but won't tolerate living in Miami and want to live in Broward or Palm Beach County. You work in Miami - you live in Miami. Or spend half your life on I-95. I lived and worked in Miami for about 25 years. You don't want to do that - go elsewhere. Don't ask me to subsidize your rail line to some high class suburb in Palm Beach County.
Co-sign everything in bold. That's like many people who live in Greater Jacksonville that work in the city, then go back to the surrounding areas and complain about fighting traffic on 9A/295 or 95/10
I can agree with this. Why should outsiders benefit from something designed to benefit the principal city?
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I love the palms and what looks to be grassed over tracks. Functional without sacrificing nature or beauty. Me likes 
