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Old 05-14-2012, 05:49 AM
 
Location: Near the beaches
1,017 posts, read 1,883,606 times
Reputation: 417

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Ok, there was a question about the watermarks I use on my images in the past. I am a photographer and someone questioned me using my watermark on my images and why I was advertising. My watermark isn't an advertisement (i.e. I don't place it there to advertise myself), rather, it's protection from someone stealing my photos. Here's what happened recently to show how my watermark helped me stop two places from using one of my photos without permission and another instance of where a TV show wanted to use my photos.

I used to shoot a LOT of MMA (mixed martial arts) shows when I lived in NJ. I had a bit of a reputation of being one of the best MMA photographers in NJ. Anyway, I have a lot of shots out there of my work.

A fried recently posted a photo of someone (who has turned into a friend) whom I shot in one of his earlier pro fights (he was recently just signed into the UFC). It was an article on the top 10 light heavyweights who should be signed by the UFC. The photo was of my friend on top of (ironically) another friend of mine and punching him.

When I saw the photo, I thought, hey, that looks familiar but it's not as good a quality and it's cropped all weird. I went back to that fight in my photos and, sure enough, it was MY photo! They cropped out my watermark--which made the image look weird. No permission was ever asked for to use the photo. Hmm...

The best/worst part, was, the article was from a major sports site--The Bleacher Report. I did some digging and they pulled the photo from a blog site called Wing's Daily News. This was just peachy keen...

So I crafted a DMCA letter in the proper format and emailed one to both Wing's Daily News and The Bleacher Report. The good news is, copyright law for photos is very clear here in the US--if you don't own it, you can't use it without permission--the bad news is, it's VERY difficult to sue/collect from someone if they decide to be jerks about it.

Long story (ok, it's already long but could be longer) short, both sites (eventually) took my photo down. Count 1 victory for me.

Fast forward to 2 weeks ago, I get a call from another fighter whom I shot his first pro fight a number of years ago when I was first starting MMA photography. He owns a school in Hoboken, NJ right around the corner from The Cake Boss--they have a show about this place (I've never seen it but I know of the show and have been to the store in years past as I used to frequent Hoboken). Apparently, they shot a show with him in it. While shooting the show they saw some photos of him fighting on the walls--I had given him his files for free at the time but the watermarks stayed on the photos and he only had rights to print them--and they wanted to use 2 of the photos (both mine) on the show as an intro to the guy.

So, I ask what any other photographer would ask when I spoke with the guy from the show--what's your budget for the photos? Of course the reply was, well, there really isn't one (which is BS because they do, they just don't want to spend the money). So we went back and forth in email for a day (or so). I eventually told them what the price would be for the images if they were licensing them from Getty (the largest repository for images like this) if they wanted the license they were asking me to give away for free--essentially, they could use the image FOREVER in ANY way they'd like on ANY type of media. I (basically) offered them a price for my photos which was HALF what they'd pay Getty (we're not talking a gazillion dollars here, a few hundred is what we're talking). I never heard back from them.

Now, why does this matter in this post? Well, they saw the watermark on the photos and did the right thing--contacted me about permission to use my photos. I am a little peeved they expected me to allow them to use the images for free but, that is up to them and a discussion for another forum. But they didn't just use the photos without permission, so that's a good thing. Basically, I've never seen the show before and I certainly won't be watching it not.

Anyway, my overall point is, you don't have to be making money on your photographs to be afforded copyright protection for them. If you took the photo--even with MY camera--YOU own the photo (unless you've signed something stating otherwise). You also don't have to register your images with the Copyright office to have protection (although it does help if it ever goes to court). You don't have to use a watermark but I HIGHLY recommend using one. It shows that the image is owned by SOMEONE else and affords some level (even though it's not much) of protection.

Sorry this was long but thanks for reading.
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL (Mandarin)
2,560 posts, read 6,500,867 times
Reputation: 1840
Great info, Rick! I don't currently watermark my real estate photos, but it's something "on the list" for me to do. I've also heard of ways you can track their usage online, but I don't know the details of how. (Maybe something to do with the embedded image info?)
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,617 posts, read 21,484,997 times
Reputation: 6794
I take a lot of pictures - but don't generally publish them. However I do use flickr when a fair number of people want to see some I've taken. There are various copyright protections on flickr - and it now has a partnership with Getty Images (I'm not familiar with the details - it's a pretty new program):

Flickr: Getty

FWIW - I recently had a photo published in the Philadelphia Inquirer (they asked me for permission - had seen the photo on a website called Journey North - I send them pictures from time to time). I didn't charge any money. Robyn
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:04 PM
 
Location: On the banks of the St Johns River
3,863 posts, read 9,507,321 times
Reputation: 3446
Do not ever believe your images on Flickr or any on line web photo hosting/sharing site are really totally safe.
Even if someone tries to copy your photo and gets the "all rights reserved image" when they right click on it,
there are various screen capture programs out there that can circumvent that obstacle easily.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,617 posts, read 21,484,997 times
Reputation: 6794
Quote:
Originally Posted by madcapmagishion View Post
Do not ever believe your images on Flickr or any on line web photo hosting/sharing site are really totally safe.
Even if someone tries to copy your photo and gets the "all rights reserved image" when they right click on it,
there are various screen capture programs out there that can circumvent that obstacle easily.
Yes - I'm aware of that. OTOH - my husband and I don't take professional quality pictures that have commercial value (at least not best I can tell). I mostly share them with people just because I want to share. Like this is the Philadelphia Inquirer picture:

Thirsty Robins Waiting For a Turn: Journey North American Robin Migration

Robyn
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Near the beaches
1,017 posts, read 1,883,606 times
Reputation: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBoyd View Post
Great info, Rick! I don't currently watermark my real estate photos, but it's something "on the list" for me to do. I've also heard of ways you can track their usage online, but I don't know the details of how. (Maybe something to do with the embedded image info?)
If you're shooting RE photos and posting on the MLS, you can't have a watermark--the MLS prohibits it--I have a separate business which provides RE photos, interactive floor plans and video walkthroughs so I'm pretty familiar with this.

There are ways to track useage of particular photos but none of them are terribly accurate unfortunately.
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Near the beaches
1,017 posts, read 1,883,606 times
Reputation: 417
Robyn makes a good point about not being a, "pro," so not worrying about watermarking images. However, I would say, whether you're shooting photos for profit or not makes no difference. If you shoot a photo, and someone then steals it (that's what they're doing if they use it without permission) and uses it to make money off it. I'd have a problem with that.

Just something to keep in mind...
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL (Mandarin)
2,560 posts, read 6,500,867 times
Reputation: 1840
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetRick View Post
If you're shooting RE photos and posting on the MLS, you can't have a watermark--the MLS prohibits it--I have a separate business which provides RE photos, interactive floor plans and video walkthroughs so I'm pretty familiar with this.
Yes, that much I'm aware of. Since those photos are sent to customers of other agents/brokers, we can't advertise our own brokerage via watermarks. They also can't contain any signage in the pictures. No branding, whatsoever. Now, the photos I put on my own website and other advertising, I can do what I wish.
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