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Old 10-09-2007, 06:22 AM
 
Location: JAX
227 posts, read 967,082 times
Reputation: 92

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Quote:
Originally Posted by riveree View Post
From what I've seen (sorry, I don't have any map links right now, but will post them if I come across them again), there are definitely differences.

When you look at evacuation maps, or flood maps, these differences show prominently.

Developers are moving to areas like the Northside because that's what is left and they'll deal with the natural state of the land as best they can, but much of it, from a disaster standpoint, is still going to be an early evacuation area.
Not true. You are looking at maps of Florida and seeing differences in the area's terrain that appear to be major because there is nothing to compare them to. Think about this from a national developer's point of view, and then compare NE Florida to say Tennessee (I’m picking Tennessee because the last out of state area I helped develop was in Tennessee). Florida is essentially one long flat sandy peninsula with areas of swamp & marshland. It is probably one of the easiest areas to develop in the Southeast because of its miles and miles of open, flat, sandy terrain. If you need to add some fill, simple, add the fill. If you need to add retention ponds, no problem, dig them out for your fill in other areas. Now compare that to Tennessee. Need some flat land, where is it? There isn’t any so bring in a blasting crew and some bulldozers to move all of the rock. If you need a road, how do you get it up the hillside? What do you do about rainwater through the hill valleys? It Is much more complicated. With this said, all of NE Florida is essentially the same and where to build has never been based on prime building land but on economic opportunity. These differences on excavation drawings are nothing compared to many other areas of the country.

Now the Northside is growing at a good rate. This has nothing to do with the terrain or being the last buildable area, but on economic potential due to its proximity to the port and the airport. Does the natural state of the land really affect the development? The answer is no. Does taking a risk that future businesses will be attracted to the Northside affect the development? Yes.
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Old 10-09-2007, 09:51 AM
 
Location: arrlando, flarida
2,227 posts, read 8,187,132 times
Reputation: 499
david in jax, with that being said, and since you stated you were just in tn, the question now is... when are you moving to tn???
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Jax
8,200 posts, read 35,340,143 times
Reputation: 3441
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in JAX View Post
Not true. You are looking at maps of Florida and seeing differences in the area's terrain that appear to be major because there is nothing to compare them to. Think about this from a national developer's point of view, and then compare NE Florida to say Tennessee (I’m picking Tennessee because the last out of state area I helped develop was in Tennessee). Florida is essentially one long flat sandy peninsula with areas of swamp & marshland. It is probably one of the easiest areas to develop in the Southeast because of its miles and miles of open, flat, sandy terrain. If you need to add some fill, simple, add the fill. If you need to add retention ponds, no problem, dig them out for your fill in other areas. Now compare that to Tennessee. Need some flat land, where is it? There isn’t any so bring in a blasting crew and some bulldozers to move all of the rock. If you need a road, how do you get it up the hillside? What do you do about rainwater through the hill valleys? It Is much more complicated. With this said, all of NE Florida is essentially the same and where to build has never been based on prime building land but on economic opportunity. These differences on excavation drawings are nothing compared to many other areas of the country.

Now the Northside is growing at a good rate. This has nothing to do with the terrain or being the last buildable area, but on economic potential due to its proximity to the port and the airport. Does the natural state of the land really affect the development? The answer is no. Does taking a risk that future businesses will be attracted to the Northside affect the development? Yes.
I think we're talking about 2 slightly different things.......

I'm speaking of the differences in terrain inside of Jax and how those subtleties have affected development of Jax over the long term - going way back to the early development, before the Great Fire even.

The river was key in development because the river was a major economic force, so early development occurred along the river.

Going back even further, Fort Caroline was key because the high bluffs could be used as a form of protection and a lookout station ("high bluffs" in relation to the immediate area, not in relation to other parts of the US).

Coming into the more recent years, the land that has been left to develop on is most often less desireable land - if it was highly desirable, it would have been populated long ago.

The Northside is a good example. It has the airport, the ocean, the river and downtown to its' south end, I95, the port, easy access to GA - why hasn't major development hit it before now? A multitude of reasons, I'm sure, but some of those reasons are terrain.

It's not to say that the vast majority of Duval/St. Johns/Clay isn't flat & wet, it is of course, but I think that's what made the areas that are less flat and less wet desireable from the early days until they were built out.

Here's just one map, there are many out there, but this shows what areas should evacuate - look how a big portion of the Northside should be getting out even in just a Cat 1:

http://www.coj.net/Departments/Fire+and+Rescue/Emergency+Preparedness/Preparedness/Evacuation+Zones+Map.htm (broken link)
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:03 PM
 
Location: JAX
227 posts, read 967,082 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtofla View Post
david in jax, with that being said, and since you stated you were just in tn, the question now is... when are you moving to tn???
I guess I don't understand your question. Do you want rid of me or do you think Tennessee is a fantastic place?
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:12 PM
 
Location: arrlando, flarida
2,227 posts, read 8,187,132 times
Reputation: 499
no man... i was joking with you. usually when ppl visit nc/sc/tn they want to move there. so since you were there recently, i thought i'd tease you about moving up there (since a lot of ppl are). that's all.

what do you do exactly, if you dont mind me asking...
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:23 PM
 
Location: JAX
227 posts, read 967,082 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by riveree View Post
I'm speaking of the differences in terrain inside of Jax and how those subtleties have affected development of Jax...

The Northside is a good example. It has the airport, the ocean, the river and downtown to its' south end, I95, the port, easy access to GA - why hasn't major development hit it before now? A multitude of reasons, I'm sure, but some of those reasons are terrain...
We had a lunch conversation about this today. My boss has been a developer here in Jacksonville since 1963 and has worked on all areas of JAX. The biggest reason the Northside took so long to develop is local politics. The Southside / Westside / Northside rivalries that you see on this website were even worse back in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Now that businesses are more international and less local, the Northside has all of the sudden become attractive. So, the lack of expansion on the Northside is a matter of local prejudice and not one of suitable terrain. And you can still see this prejudice today. How many times have you seen on this site, "don't move to the Westside"? Or, "you will regret living on the Northside of Jacksonville"?
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:27 PM
 
Location: JAX
227 posts, read 967,082 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtofla View Post
no man... i was joking with you. usually when ppl visit nc/sc/tn they want to move there. so since you were there recently, i thought i'd tease you about moving up there (since a lot of ppl are). that's all.

what do you do exactly, if you dont mind me asking...
I'm a Professional Engineer with 17 years of experience in commercial real estate development. I love NC/SC/TN, but I prefer Florida.

Last edited by David in JAX; 10-09-2007 at 02:43 PM..
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Old 10-09-2007, 04:29 PM
 
Location: arrlando, flarida
2,227 posts, read 8,187,132 times
Reputation: 499
yeah, you are in nfla too, which in many ways is better than central and south fla. thanks.
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Jax
8,200 posts, read 35,340,143 times
Reputation: 3441
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in JAX View Post
How many times have you seen on this site, "don't move to the Westside"? Or, "you will regret living on the Northside of Jacksonville"?
It's such a big area, each section has it's own flavor for sure .

It's really true, people that live on the Westside will tell you they would never move to the Southside and vice-versa. I don't imagine that will change much though - the river will always divide the city up into thirds, physically and probably sociologically too.
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:39 AM
 
Location: NE Florida
17,833 posts, read 33,013,501 times
Reputation: 43378
Quote:
Originally Posted by riveree View Post
It's such a big area, each section has it's own flavor for sure .

It's really true, people that live on the Westside will tell you they would never move to the Southside and vice-versa. I don't imagine that will change much though - the river will always divide the city up into thirds, physically and probably sociologically too.
well said riveree
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