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So tell me, how can Florida schools be so far behind northern schools when we occupy 10% of this list?! If we were even on par we would occupy only 1/50th of this list, amiright?
Shannon, I was going to post exactly what you posted. I think this is an extremely big incentive & topic for anyone or any family considering relocating to St. Johns County. I'm from Long Island, NY where we have one of the highest cost of living rates in the country & some of the highest taxes in the country. The big lure up here has always been our education system & our schools. Now, on that Washington Post list of America's Best & Challenging Schools based on a Challenge Index, there are 23 Long Island Schools. Mostly from the wealthier areas. BUT, all 4 Public High Schools in St. Johns County( Creekside, Bartram Trail, Ponte Vedra & Nease) are listed higher than 14 of those highly reputable L.I. schools that are on that list. When I tell people here on LI that we're moving to Florida, their response is always "Yeah, but their Schools are horrible". That may be true in certain parts of Florida, but I tell them to look a little closer & think again. St. Johns County- Better Schools at a Better Price Tag & a very nice place to live to. Also, You have Schools like Stanton & Paxon in Jacksonville that are very highly rated. Theres a lot to be said about that.
There are approx. 22,000 public high schools in the U.S., Look at the National Rankings of the St. Johns County High Schools:
Creekside#204
Bartram Trail#292
Ponte Vedra#325
Nease#336
Here is the Washington Post Article & the list's. Both National & State Rankings: http://apps.washingtonpost.com/local...hoolchallenge/
Here are some other High Schools in Jacksonville on the Washington Post List:
Stanton College Prep#7
Paxon School for Advanced Studies#14
Darnell-Cookman#15
Samuel-Wolfson#74
Douglas-Anderson#124
Out of approx. 22,000 Schools , I'd say thats pretty good.
I was glad to see those 4 high schools in St. Johns county rank high. I also expected to see a few schools in Jacksonville on the list. I know Stanton and Paxon are supposed to be very good. And I see they both ranked really high.
But I am not sure if the method they used to rank these schools is a really good one. The index score they used is the number of college-level tests given divided by the number of graduates. For example, Samuel Wolfson is ranked #74. The greatschools.org gives the school only 5 out of 10. The school had a 64% graduation rate in 2012 when Ponte vedra high had a 97% graduation rate in 2012. By the way, I have nothing against Samuel Wolfson. I checked on the school because I was not familiar with the name. If having a low number of graduates can produce a high index score, it can't be a good method. It's flawed.
I think an important factor to note is that both Stanton and Paxon have very selective admittance criteria. They are honors schools open to the brightest students so of course they will be rigorous. Darnell Cookman is also a Magnet.
Magnet schools are open to kids of active military first (barring other specific criteria ie performing arts), sibling preference etc so many kids will never have a chance to attend one of these schools. You can view the priorities for the lottery here: https://www.duvalchoice.com/how-to-a...ool/priorities.
A few good schools does not mean quality public education for the majority.
I don't know why most people here can't connect the dots . More white non-Hispanic English as a first language relatively upper income people means better schools. More black/Hispanic English not as a first language relatively lower income people means worse schools. Doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the schools. Just the nature/backgrounds of the students.
That's a wildcard in a place like many parts of St. Johns County. Who's going to wind up living where when all those tens of thousands of acres are built out. And which schools will kids attend when various schools in various areas become overcrowded. We *do* have C/D schools in St. Johns County. Robyn
Stanton has 48% White and Paxon 41% White. Source is greatschools
Good discussion...my concern is the FCAT in Florida public schools seems to be even more involved than standardized tests in other states (and some other states are now feeling the pressure of parents/teachers/etc against excessive testing, and reconsidering timelines and details of common core testing).
St. Johns schools do rate high on the national rankings. Overcrowding is concerning...but St. Johns county caps the high schools at 1500-1600 vs. other counties in Florida that have high schools with 2000-3000+ kids. However, I do hope they are already planning another high school.
For now no new high schools are planned, but “the high school (student) numbers are starting to climb,” said Nicole Cubbedge, director for facilities planning and growth. “We know there will be an additional need, but we’re not sure when a new high school will be needed. We’ll … keep an eye on that.”
Moreover - there is just about zero voter support here in this very red area (68%+ for Romney in 2012) for anyone/anything who/that would raise taxes to do anything - including building new schools. So - if schools wind up overcrowded in the near future - you're probably going to wind up with trailers (we've had them before during prior building booms - and I'm sure we'll have them again).
As for minority kids in places like Stanton - yup - they're there. Much to the chagrin of various people in Duval County who would rather see the "best and the brightest" minority kids in their local schools - as opposed to the best magnet high school in the county. I ain't got no dog in that fight. However - I am attending a Cornell event next week for students who've gotten acceptance letters. Will be interesting to see what schools they're from - what sports they're in as well (Bolles and Stanton usually are at the top of the list in terms of schools - crew is usually the most popular sport).
As for Common Core and standardized testing - I'm pretty much with former Governor Jeb Bush on this one:
Note that most of the opposition to Common Core in this neck of the woods comes from Tea Party conservatives who fear a "nationalizing" of educational standards. I guess in other parts of the country opposition comes from the champions of "children's self-esteem". On my part - I'm in favor of a basic curriculum that all students must master (something students in many other countries are required to do). Robyn
No Robyn, your view is shallow. What people are worried about is teachers that HATE their jobs (and show it) because they have to teach from scripted lessons and all job autonomy and creativity is gone. Parents of SMART kids hate common core too because no longer can they go ahead (ie take advanced Math classes) but classes are all "dumbed down" to the common core level (schools, already, are dropping advanced math classes becuase administrators want all focus on the "new" common core material so the kids pass the tests). This is a problem at every level. When Arne Duncan announced that "soccer mom are afraid of the tests", he was met with a firestorm of criticism from every angle. The over-testing is the problem (and everything that goes with it), not testing in the old fashioned way (one standardized test a year that was about the CHILD's level; today's tests are not about the individual student, they are only about rating the SCHOOL).
Common Core issues are not limited to the Tea Party. They are widespread across all socioeconomic levels, political parties, students (gifted to special ed, and everything in between). The schools are spending most of the school year on practice tests, not actual learning. Multiple choice, bubble tests galore. Politicians are making decisions on education, not education professionals. One quote from Redstate (I assume that is a republican website?): "Common Core has become just a new education trend. Every decade, bored educators in the United States latch on to a new trend on how to teach things. By God it is a horrific idea that we might teach math the way math has always been taught. There are always new ways and common core is just the latest." Remember, Robyn, NASA, Google, computer engineers, bridge engineers, doctors, and all of the top mathematicians and scientists used traditional math and it works. The "newest" (common core) math is supposedly about problem solving, but it is about teaching inefficient ways to do math and spend more time pontificating about math than actually doing problems. Are you aware that over 1 million 3rd-11th grade students are sitting for 4 DAYS of "Pilot PARCC tests" -- and neither the school nor the parents get the scores? 4 days of instruction is lost in numerous schools to "test the test" and there were tons of problems (the test is computer administered and screens locked up, text boxes didn't work for typing, etc etc!). Now, tell me Ms. Ivy League Robyn, how exactly is that a good use of educational/instructional time?! Ahh, as I thought, you say you "read articles from time to time" but you don't have kids in school nor do you follow the latest information on this topic.
As for Bolles and Stanton and Cornell, keep us posted. There are limited numbers of high schools that offer Crew as a sport, and Crew is offered in Jacksonville schools. That is why Cornell is interested in smart kids that do Crew.
Robyn, just curious why you seem to want schools there to go downhill. Great schools drive property values up (and keep out the riff raff you seem so concerned about).
Last edited by snuffybear; 04-16-2014 at 01:19 PM..
No Robyn, your view is shallow. What people are worried about is teachers that HATE their jobs (and show it) because they have to teach from scripted lessons and all job autonomy and creativity is gone. Parents of SMART kids hate common core too because no longer can they go ahead (ie take advanced Math classes) but classes are all "dumbed down" to the common core level (schools, already, are dropping advanced math classes becuase administrators want all focus on the "new" common core material so the kids pass the tests). This is a problem at every level. When Arne Duncan announced that "soccer mom are afraid of the tests", he was met with a firestorm of criticism from every angle. The over-testing is the problem (and everything that goes with it), not testing in the old fashioned way (one standardized test a year that was about the CHILD's level; today's tests are not about the individual student, they are only about rating the SCHOOL).
Common Core issues are not limited to the Tea Party. They are widespread across all socioeconomic levels, political parties, students (gifted to special ed, and everything in between). The schools are spending most of the school year on practice tests, not actual learning. Multiple choice, bubble tests galore.
As for Bolles and Stanton and Cornell, keep us posted. There are limited numbers of high schools that offer Crew as a sport, and Crew is offered in Jacksonville schools. That is why Cornell is interested in smart kids that do Crew.
Robyn, just curious why you seem to want schools there to go downhill. Great schools drive property values up (and keep out the riff raff you seem so concerned about).
Those may be your worries. But this is Tea Party country - and this is what the Tea Party thinks of Common Core:
I guess politics/other issues sometime make for strange bedfellows.
Also - it seems that Common Core will perhaps bring up the general level of student achievement. Which is pretty abysmal these days. Days when the SAT is planning to "dumb down":
Sometimes when I read these school discussion threads - I'm reminded of Lake Wobegon (where all the kids are above average). If all our students are so great - how come they test so lousy on basic stuff? And when I say "our students" - I mean the students in Florida in general - not the students in St. Johns County. I have no particular interest in the schools in St. Johns County as opposed to the state as a whole.
FWIW - I don't agree with you about good schools and property values. Except if you're talking about run of the mill houses in otherwise run of the mill places. The key to long term property values in Florida (overlooking the inevitable boom and bust cycles) in Florida has always been location (especially on or near the water). And a limited amount of land. That's true where I live now. Of the 3 young families who've moved to my block in the last few years - 2 are sending their kids to Bolles - and the 3rd doesn't have kids yet.
If you look at PVB - there's a natural limit to growth here - because we're bounded by JAX Beach to the north - the Guana Preserve to the south - the ocean to the east - and the ICW to the west. There are some lower end parts of PVB. Not unsafe or anything. Just relatively low class for the area in general. But it's a small % of the place. And - when some of these places get torn down (probably after I'm dead) - they'll be replaced with higher end stuff. More important - the stuff was all here when I moved here. We knew what the area was like.
In contrast - out west in places like Nocatee and similar - there is basically no limit to growth. And no one has a clue what the area will be like 20 years from now. To give you a framework for comparison - the population of PVB is about 27000 now. As of today - there are approved DRIs in St. Johns County which allow the building of over 50000 more *housing units*. In retrospect - perhaps those of us who favored "reasonable growth" in the county - but nothing at all like what was approved - should have been more involved in this stuff. OTOH - it's pretty hard to get info about SJC. The best source of public info is the St. Augustine Record - which is now behind an almost $100/year pay wall. On my part - my main need for these links stuff these days is to write messages here . I have enough access to info about local topics in the areas that are of interest/concern to me.
And I caution everyone - if the only thing that is attracting to you a middle of nowhere development in SJC is the schools - consider current thinking and possible developments. E.g., there is currently thinking along the lines that our future schools (if and when they materialize) should be larger. E.g., high schools with 2k+ students (nothing wrong with that IMO - my HS had 2400 students):
IOW - more centralization. And for those of you unfamiliar with our fair county - there is a reasonably large poor rural black/Hispanic population in the SW. There's no high school there (the kids get bused to Pedro Menedez HS now). I wouldn't rule out a new very large HS that pulls in kids from these older areas - as well as some newer areas. Stranger things have happened.
Finally - I don't think you and others understand where people like me are coming from at all. If we had wanted wall to wall cookie cutter developments with lots of people from up north (who are fleeing whatever you guys flee from - bad winters - high taxes - whatever) - we would have moved to Broward or Palm Beach Counties. We moved to SJC because it's a small somewhat relatively out of the way county with a somewhat small town way of life. I cringe when I read messages like this:
My husband, 3 elementary/middle school children will be visiting the Nocatee area at the end of April. We are looking for a community with great schools, lots of children, friendly neighbors, with a lot of NY transplants! We are looking for a 4/5 BR 2.5 BA home no more than $370K.
I don't want to live in a county that has a high % of NY transplants living in nothing middle of nowhere suburbs that used to be pleasant to look at tree farms. I don't want to live in a county where every family that moves in costs taxpayers like me money (anyone in a house in the stated price range is a money drain because of the cost of schools). I wouldn't mind it if someone (anyone!) was bringing a business and jobs with them. But I honestly can't recall anyone bringing businesses or jobs - just kids. Robyn
P.S. I honestly get sick of people talking about nothing except schools. Isn't anyone concerned with shopping - restaurants - recreation facilities - medical facilities - and churches/synagogues/etc. You do know that NE is a big religious area - yes? Even though I am a far from devout Jew - I did make sure that everything here wasn't all Baptist 24/7 before making the move .
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