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The question was if we would host a Super Bowl or National Championship Game. I think it's very unlikely in the next decade. Not impossible, but very unlikely. You start talking about everything else but what was specifically asked. We didnt even bid for the 2018-2020 playoff games. Our bid committees decided there was no point. Realistically what would you say are our chances to land a playoff game between 2021 and 2025? I think, quite optimistically, maybe 20%. Chances at the title game? A little less. Many would consider that slim.
Separately, your comment about the Taxslayer Bowl is extremely laughable. The game was very significant a decade ago. It's become quite an embarrassment since. I do hope it can reach "major" status again but it hasn't shown any signs of that yet.
Do you know why the Jacksonville Sports and Entertainment group did not make a bid for the 2018-2020 playoff games? It was all over the Jacksonville news, but they said that they did not feel that they had the facilities or plans for facilities to be able to compete. So why submit a bid when you know you do not have the facilities? If Khan's shipyard plan is approved, it would takes us to another level, where downtown would be closer, if not there and ready for Jax to submit a plan. You have to have the resources and facilities available to make a play for the game. Jax was not ready, and kudos to the people with sports management experience for knowing they were not ready. Yes, there was no point, but there were many reasons, and I think its fair to point out the many reasons to all those who are following this thread. It wasn't just because it was a loser.
We don't need a title game to have an impact. If you want a title game, go to where there are 10,000 hotel rooms, the minimum the NFL says must be available for a Super Bowl. The cruise ship experiment was a dud, it will not be back to Jax without more hotel rooms and until downtown comes alive, there will be no need for more hotel rooms, so Super Bowl or title game are out..................................but you can still play a game in the 8-team playoff which many believe is coming.
Its amazing how many naysayers there are about the resources Jacksonville has. Amazing people call the old Gator Bowl, laughable. Sure the sponsor is wierd, but they are still a title sponsor and the same JSE Council brought the Navy/ND game to Jax, which you fail to recognize as significant. They still may bring the Army/Navy game, as the 'Bank will be nicer over the next few years than the decrepit Philly stadium they play the game in now.
New Years Day bowls apparently are a dime a dozen, so why bother arguing there.
I think I made a mistake engaging you. But I can't turn back now...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtraininjax
Do you know why the Jacksonville Sports and Entertainment group did not make a bid for the 2018-2020 playoff games? It was all over the Jacksonville news, but they said that they did not feel that they had the facilities or plans for facilities to be able to compete. So why submit a bid when you know you do not have the facilities? If Khan's shipyard plan is approved, it would takes us to another level, where downtown would be closer, if not there and ready for Jax to submit a plan. You have to have the resources and facilities available to make a play for the game. Jax was not ready, and kudos to the people with sports management experience for knowing they were not ready. Yes, there was no point, but there were many reasons, and I think its fair to point out the many reasons to all those who are following this thread. It wasn't just because it was a loser.
So this is an explanation and extrapolation from the exact post I made which you blasted. Why would you then turn around and say the same thing I said??
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtraininjax
We don't need a title game to have an impact. If you want a title game, go to where there are 10,000 hotel rooms, the minimum the NFL says must be available for a Super Bowl. The cruise ship experiment was a dud, it will not be back to Jax without more hotel rooms and until downtown comes alive, there will be no need for more hotel rooms, so Super Bowl or title game are out..................................but you can still play a game in the 8-team playoff which many believe is coming.
I agree. I think we're both being rather optimistic but I agree. Again, you do realize this is not what my previous post was responding to...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtraininjax
Its amazing how many naysayers there are about the resources Jacksonville has. Amazing people call the old Gator Bowl, laughable. Sure the sponsor is wierd, but they are still a title sponsor and the same JSE Council brought the Navy/ND game to Jax, which you fail to recognize as significant. They still may bring the Army/Navy game, as the 'Bank will be nicer over the next few years than the decrepit Philly stadium they play the game in now.
New Years Day bowls apparently are a dime a dozen, so why bother arguing there.
I'm hardly a naysayer. Not sure why you attacked my post previously. If you read and process info you'd should realize that I am in agreement with almost all of your opinions regarding the sports complex, shipyards, Khan, etc. I've been hoping and praying for Army/Navy since my friend brought it up to Alvin Brown and the sports council 5 years ago.
What else...you completely missed what I said about the Gator Bowl. Gator Bowl was NOT laughable back in the day. It's laughable that today you're calling it a Major bowl game. It has dropped a couple tiers...that's an objective fact based on payout rank and team selection.
My father is now 97 - and was recently diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. He has a good living situation - and great medical care here. So - even though I think there might be better places for me and my husband - well - heck I'm not going to abandon my father here. My husband and I are both eldest children - and I think it is basically our responsibility to care for our elderly parents. This area is ok - not great for us. But - there isn't any place I've found that would be so much better - if any better for us - that I would leave the area and dump my father here.
So I hope to make the best of whatever the JAX metro area has to offer - and will try to work to increase the chances that it has more to offer - for all of us . Robyn
Sorry to hear about your father. I hope he is comfortable and happy for his remaining years.
What are you missing here? Trying to think of solutions for you to improve the situation and/or think of other areas that would be more suitable.
...What else...you completely missed what I said about the Gator Bowl. Gator Bowl was NOT laughable back in the day. It's laughable that today you're calling it a Major bowl game. It has dropped a couple tiers...that's an objective fact based on payout rank and team selection.
Lastly, I have no idea why
I am not sure you're disagreeing with mtraininjax about this either. He said:
New Years Day bowls apparently are a dime a dozen, so why bother arguing there.
Now I don't know anything about the game itself or the conferences/teams that play in it. Except that some teams - like Clemson - seem to send tons of fans here when they play - and others - like Syracuse - don't (understandable considering the respective travel times). But how do I know? I go to the Gator Bowl parade a fair number of years. Now the Gator Bowl parade is still pretty bad. Except in one area. High school marching bands - where it has improved a lot. Apparently there are so many good high school marching bands across the country - and so few bowl parades left (e.g., there hasn't been an Orange Bowl parade for over a decade) - that good bands want to march in any bowl parade they can get invited to (not everyone can march in the Rose Bowl parade!). It is a plus for many of the band member families that Jacksonville is a relatively affordable place to visit - even during the holidays. FWIW - the 2 college marching bands are always great. Worth the price of admission if you're a fan of marching bands. Robyn
Sorry to hear about your father. I hope he is comfortable and happy for his remaining years.
What are you missing here? Trying to think of solutions for you to improve the situation and/or think of other areas that would be more suitable.
Thank you for the kind wishes (and I caught the "years" thing - even though the doctors give my father 6 months - I give him about 2 years or so - his family has super-longevity ). One thing I know is my father will get the best possible care. Not only does he have some money - he's a member of the concierge practice at Mayo (as are we). Before I say what I'm missing - I will list the positives. And Mayo is one of them. No question the older we get - the more important health care is. Both for us - and our older fathers who wound up living here near us. How many people live 10-15 minutes away from a world class place like Mayo? To give you an idea how great Mayo is - my father - an otherwise extremely healthy 97 year old - went to his PCP at Mayo with jaundice on a Thursday afternoon. Got worked up head to toe on Friday. His bile duct was obstructed (not uncommon in these cases) - and he had a multi-hour (gee whiz high tech) procedure on Monday to stent the blockage. Blockage and jaundice both gone. If he had chosen to be aggressive about treatment (which he didn't at his age) - it probably would have started on Tuesday.
Another thing we've been happy with is the senior facilities here. First River Garden (SNF in Mandarin) for my late FIL. Perhaps the best SNF in the whole state. And then the Carriage Club on Southside for my father (independent living). Sometimes a good life is defined by an absence of hassles. And we have been blessed having these facilities here. They have made dealing with elderly parents much easier than many people elsewhere have it (judging from many threads/comments in the Retirement and Caregiving forums). The only unfortunate thing in this area is that the area/apartments around the Carriage Club have deteriorated somewhat in the last year or so.
As for where we live - we absolutely love our house. You spend more time at home when you're retired than when you're working. And our house - which we built for ourselves as a retirement house - is perfect for us. My husband and I travel a fair amount - and it would be hard to duplicate our house in any of my "fantasy wish list" areas for less than 3-4 times what it cost us here.
As for things we do - the athletic facilities here are excellent. We can no longer do some things we did here when we were younger. Like play tennis - bike ride - run - canoe. But we still play golf. At TPC Sawgrass. A world class facility 10 minutes away from us. When we get paired up with people who aren't members - and they ask what membership costs - they are usually amazed how relatively inexpensive it is (especially if they're from a "high priced spread" part of the US).
Now what don't I like? I really wish we had better restaurants. Especially at the beaches - especially in PVB (which has a pretty dismal subset of the mediocre beaches dining scene). I don't know why we don't have better restaurants here. Some people theorize there are so many younger people here 1) with children; and 2) who are living beyond their means that they don't have the time or money for fine dining - or usually not even good eats. Got me. There are some better restaurants in other parts of town. But it's not like there's any area that's "dense" with good restaurants. And - although we have dined at most of these places - it's almost always for lunch when we have other things to do in a particular part of town. Doesn't make sense for us to drive to/from Riverside or San Marco for dinner.
FWIW - I have compensated for the lack of good restaurants by becoming a pretty excellent home cook (and my husband is a great prep chef - men seem to be fascinated with knives and I keep him supplied with really good ones ). The food shopping in the metro area is excellent - and I "make the rounds" on a regular basis (although I might get over to Whole Foods/JAX Oriental Market only once every 3-4 weeks).. Also - I buy the few ingredients I can't find locally on line.
I also wish we had better shopping - especially housewares (perhaps this is a female thing). How I long for a Sur La Table - a Macy's housewares department - or even a Container Store. Some places where I can kill a few hours on a hot summer afternoon. Sure - I know I can buy everything on line (and I do - I have enough boxes and shipping materials from that shopping to start my own shipping business ) - but it's nice to get out of the house.
I wish the area was prettier. I lived in a pretty beautiful area of Miami - all that blue/green water and those tropical plants. All that kudzu on Butler Blvd. is UGLY. OTOH - Miami had certain issues - which was why we left. One of them was that by the time Miami got everything I wanted - the traffic was so bad I couldn't get to most of those things. My brother and his wife still live in Miami Beach. The traffic is so awful in the metro area these days that they won't even venture to their local Costco on the mainland. When they come to visit my father here - they stock up at our Costco. Another issue was crime. We wanted a house (we lived in a high rise condo) - and things like home invasion robberies and driveway muggings weren't uncommon even in the better/best areas (my brother's house was burglarized twice when he was working on his boat at his dock - and a federal judge friend of mine was mugged in her driveway in Coral Gables and wound up in the hospital - criminal was so stupid he didn't realize that mugging a federal judge is a big deal federal offense). My husband absolutely positively refused to live in a single family house in the Miami area.
The older I get - the more I realize that unless you have a gazillion dollars (which we don't have) - most of life is a trade off. And I suppose the trade-offs aren't bad here. Also - "Don't Cry For Me Argentina". When I need my fixes of the things I miss here - like I said - I travel. We spent a total of about 3 weeks this year in London and Beverly Hills. Got the restaurant fixes - the museum fixes - the shopping fixes. Next stop in the spring - about 9 days in Madrid.
Note that if our restaurant scene was as good as London's - I'd probably be 20 pounds overweight. Also - I don't expect us to have world class museums (or even very good ones - so I don't fault the area for that). Robyn
P.S. Taxes - or the lack of them - are important to us. Because we don't have a state income tax here - well not paying a state income tax basically pays for our travel every year. Once you get used to not paying a state income tax (and we have become accustomed to that after 40+ years in Florida) - it's hard to embrace the idea of moving to another state that has one.
Oh - one thing I forgot to mention is medical insurance. My husband and I were in the Florida high risk health pool for about 15 years before we went on Medicare. My husband because he has MS. Me because of a possible breast cancer issue (which never materialized). When I took casual looks at moving out of Florida pre-Medicare - casual because of other issues - well it didn't look like there was anywhere in the US where we could move - for the most part - and get immediate medical insurance to replace what we had. The states that had similar high risk pools had minimum residency requirements - and some states didn't have this kind of insurance at all.
In any event - my husband went on Medicare first - and I went on Medicare in 2013. Can't say the Medicare situation here is the best (most of the better PCPs are "concierge only") - but our Medigap coverage here in NE Florida costs about 30% less than it costs in south Florida. What costs us about $400/month here in NE Florida would cost close to $600/month in south Florida. Not a huge amount of money - but not peanuts either. Robyn
Do you know why the Jacksonville Sports and Entertainment group did not make a bid for the 2018-2020 playoff games? It was all over the Jacksonville news, but they said that they did not feel that they had the facilities or plans for facilities to be able to compete. So why submit a bid when you know you do not have the facilities? If Khan's shipyard plan is approved, it would takes us to another level, where downtown would be closer, if not there and ready for Jax to submit a plan. You have to have the resources and facilities available to make a play for the game. Jax was not ready, and kudos to the people with sports management experience for knowing they were not ready. Yes, there was no point, but there were many reasons, and I think its fair to point out the many reasons to all those who are following this thread. It wasn't just because it was a loser.
We don't need a title game to have an impact. If you want a title game, go to where there are 10,000 hotel rooms, the minimum the NFL says must be available for a Super Bowl. The cruise ship experiment was a dud, it will not be back to Jax without more hotel rooms and until downtown comes alive, there will be no need for more hotel rooms, so Super Bowl or title game are out..................................but you can still play a game in the 8-team playoff which many believe is coming.
Its amazing how many naysayers there are about the resources Jacksonville has. Amazing people call the old Gator Bowl, laughable. Sure the sponsor is wierd, but they are still a title sponsor and the same JSE Council brought the Navy/ND game to Jax, which you fail to recognize as significant. They still may bring the Army/Navy game, as the 'Bank will be nicer over the next few years than the decrepit Philly stadium they play the game in now.
New Years Day bowls apparently are a dime a dozen, so why bother arguing there.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you.
As one mentioned in another similar post.....it might be nice to think about a sports district, but without bars and resturants there is nothing to keep people here after the events.
I have been going to the NCAA Basketball Tournaments the times we get them and it is the same old smack I hear from those visiting.....beautiful facility but nothing around for people to do between the games. There is one very small bar.
Everbank has gone from the Gator Bowl to a state of the art venue........but bottom line it has nothing for downtown.
As someone who has been in this area for close to 30 years I think I have the ability to offer a constructive opinion about downtown.
Am I a Debbie Downer? I don't think so.......I call it like I see it.
Kahn and the city had big hopes for the Shipyards property and their glossy presentations were spread all over the news. The demolition and rebuilding of the Landing, the possibility of an Aquarium, the Navy ship Adams along with a few others were all being tied to this property. Now we have soil contamination and BAM you have a brand new glossy presentation spread all over the news of a new dream for a new sports and entertainment district right next to Everbank.
I am all for anything to move ahead in a positive direction.......but please do something credible that can be built on.
To put all our eggs in one basket with Sports is fine if you can keep people downtown both before and after the games, but without resturants and bars it is not going to happen.
As far as losing Country Fest there were rumblings last year with the city in the negotiations and behind the scenes there were some serious issues brought up by the promoters. I think our venue has it all over Daytona, but they do have the infrastructure that people want around their venue.
Almost 30 years ago The Landing was the second coming and a lot of hopes and dreams of revitalizing was tied to it. Now it sits with diminishing tenants and the thoughts are to tear it down and the masses will come to a new and shiny waterfront..........lets hope so for everyone's sake as I have been here to long, now it is my daughters turn to watch and wait for a revitalized downtown the likes they have seen in so many other cities.
Now we have soil contamination and BAM you have a brand new glossy presentation spread all over the news of a new dream for a new sports and entertainment district right next to Everbank.
Soil contamination has always been at the Shipyards, this did not occur just last month or last year. There was contamination at Berkman as well, and there is in most spots along the river because no one cared what the mariners did with the chemicals they used on ships. There are thousands of septic tanks that leach nastiness into the river, but that is a thread for a different day.
Country fest was all about money. The promoters wanted more of the money for bedding. Its the reason they pulled the plug after 2 years. All about money. They shipped it to a speedway, and they are following the same "boring" model of other music events of offering camping and other "bedding" options right onsite, where they can collect more $$$ for overnight stays. It has nothing to do with infrastructure, all about money.
The Landing is Sleiman's doing. He has plans to do all sorts of stuff, but the Landing is just like any downtown restaurant, it depends on traffic after 5, and it has nothing to do with being on the river or the prettiness factor, its downtown and there are not enough people living downtown to support it, yet.
Big projects take time. Healthy town, offered by Peter Rummell on the old Southside Gen Station takes time, it had soil issues too, but Rummell is a pro and developments, but it still takes time. It will be a gem on the southbank. The Shipyards will happen too, it just takes time, its a big commitment and no one wants to get it wrong and waste taxpayer funds like previous administrations did with the former Shipyards debacle.
This thread is not about downtown, but for downtown to survive, it needs more residents.
I am not a Duval resident or more importantly a taxpayer................my two cents come from my travels throughout the US over the last 50 years...............I have visited and stayed in so many cities and to really see the stagnation in downtown Jacksonville over the last 30 is pretty sad.
I have walked the streets downtown San Diego in the very early 80's and to see where it is at right now is mind blowing.
Same with Baltimores waterfront..........excellent except for the fact that you need to be sure of your self and take care leaving the area as it gets bad.
Hopefully my girls will see a different future for downtown.
I do believe Kahn will walk away from the Shipyards project because of the soil............he has had first hand experience in this sort go thing unless the city pays. A man of that position just doesn't walk away from a major project like that to move it over a whim.
If they do proceed with this project we do needs bars and resturants or a parking area for food trucks and perhaps other types of food and drink events........it maybe in direct completion with the venue events but we need people to hangout before and after the events.
As far as Country Fest, dig deeper and you will find a bit of the blame on the city............need prior history on city dealing with these type of issues, do a search on how they awarded the colosseum bids.
Check the link out......there are more credible new sources that reported this, but again I think Kahn will not take a leadership role in the Shipyards unless the city takes full responsibility for the cleanup and possibly future liability.
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. Robyn
). One thing I know is my father will get the best possible care. Not only does he have some money - he's a member of the concierge practice at Mayo (as are we). Before I say what I'm missing - I will list the positives. And Mayo is one of them. No question the older we get - the more important health care is. Both for us - and our older fathers who wound up living here near us. How many people live 10-15 minutes away from a world class place like Mayo? To give you an idea how great Mayo is - my father - an otherwise extremely healthy 97 year old - went to his PCP at Mayo with jaundice on a Thursday afternoon. Got worked up head to toe on Friday. His bile duct was obstructed (not uncommon in these cases) - and he had a multi-hour (gee whiz high tech) procedure on Monday to stent the blockage. Blockage and jaundice both gone. If he had chosen to be aggressive about treatment (which he didn't at his age) - it probably would have started on Tuesday.
) - but it's nice to get out of the house.
