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I will you a true story. Moving from the Northeast we had good public schools, so when we moved down here we wanted my daughter to go to an equally good school so we did a school tour through St. Johns and my daughter absolutely refused to go to Nease due to the reason you have pointed out. She was like these kids are like something you see on a TV show. So I have to agree with you.
As a (commercial) banker - you would not be likely to run across people who don't need lines of credit. I haven't needed a line of credit since I retired. And the line of credit basically had to do with the end of my business fiscal year/cash flow (had to zero out a lot of things at the end of the fiscal year - and then borrow for a month or so until the cash flow for the next fiscal year kicked in).
Only reason I need a non-on line bank these days is because I need a safe deposit box.
If some of the richest people you've met lived in old ranch houses and drove old cars - I suspect you haven't met many really rich people. You're talking about people with perhaps a million dollars or so. Like my late FIL. Who was an extraordinarily cheap miserly person (he wouldn't spring for a handicap bathroom for my late MIL when she needed one). His behavior wasn't especially virtuous/to be commended IMO. Robyn
You just know everything don't you? Bankers don't just talk to people who need credit, everyone needs bank accounts and multitudes of other things. Also people don't put their own money on the line for corporations. And a million isn't a lot of money, Robyn. But I forgot you are the only one who really knows anything about money or rich people here. Silly me.
Snuffy my family in Florida has said people are more flashy. People will live in the projects and drive a bmw. Priorities? Lol. I don't know after years in finance I don't judge a book by its cover, house, car, or watch for that matter. But I do tend to believe the more stuck up one is the less the truly have. Though, I did know a billionaire who just the worst. He just thought everyone in the world owed him something, and would go nuts when he didn't get his way. We dumped him because it was a money losing proposition and he couldn't believe that a bank wouldn't want him. I always wanted to hug his poor wife who always looked humiliated.
Sunshine, you will notice many in FL try to act the part but many are not. Southeast fla especially. It's like... Look at me,..and what I drive. Little do many know my truck is more expensive than their Lexus or Acura. But so many try to act the part, living off a decent but nothing crazy salary.
I'm just saying this to prove my point... Not to put myself above anyone. But I know ppl personally that act the part... And I know for w fact I make more than they do. And my wife makes a good living as well. Nothing crazy, but combined, we do pretty well. We are in our early 30s but have kids, lots of bills, etc. We live(rent) in a 30 yr old 1400 sq ft house. My wife's vehicle is probably 7 yrs old by now. She could trade it in and get a Lexus or whatever but it's paid for. My truck is nice but I put a lot of money down and had a trade in that was paid for. So my payment is relatively low. My point is, the way I dress, etc... U would probably think I made 25k a year. But I put money into retirement and bills, day care, etc...
On the flip side I know older folks in western NC who have tons and tons of money. They act completely normal and u would never know it. For some reason, here, it's very much a "look at me" attitude. But many times, it's for show and I don't understand it, but it is what it is I suppose. It's very evident in the Hispanic community so maybe that's why it seems so prevalent. Tons of white people do it too, I'm not saying they don't. But I've noticed it seems very important to look the part in certain folks more so than in others.
I absolutely LOVED reading The Millionaire Next Door. Such an insightful book!
Ditto.
Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover was also a great read and an eye opener for me at that time in my life. Minus all the religious stuff that you can take or leave, the financial wisdom is something a lot of people need to understand. Being debt-free can really change your life in a number of positive ways.
You just know everything don't you? Bankers don't just talk to people who need credit, everyone needs bank accounts and multitudes of other things. Also people don't put their own money on the line for corporations. And a million isn't a lot of money, Robyn. But I forgot you are the only one who really knows anything about money or rich people here. Silly me.
Snuffy my family in Florida has said people are more flashy. People will live in the projects and drive a bmw. Priorities? Lol. I don't know after years in finance I don't judge a book by its cover, house, car, or watch for that matter. But I do tend to believe the more stuck up one is the less the truly have. Though, I did know a billionaire who just the worst. He just thought everyone in the world owed him something, and would go nuts when he didn't get his way. We dumped him because it was a money losing proposition and he couldn't believe that a bank wouldn't want him. I always wanted to hug his poor wife who always looked humiliated.
Banking needs/wants vary. Especially when it comes to business. I recall that when my husband had his law office - one of his things was getting settlement checks cleared quickly. There were banks that wanted more than a week to clear funds (on checks written by major insurance companies). Which - even in the "dark ages" back then - was way too long.
Today - we have very different needs. And - in this fast changing world - try to come up with banking solutions that work for us.
Who said a million dollars is a lot of money? Not me. If you hang around the Retirement Forum - many/most people there don't think it's a lot of money either - at least when you're contemplating retirement. Especially in today's investment environment. Barron's - which thought that "beer and pretzels" rich was minimum $5 million 20-30 years ago - now pegs the number at $25 million:
I've met 5 people who I knew to be billionaires. More who had 9 figure net worths (magazines/newspapers have lists of very wealthy people from time to time). All in south Florida. All at charitable fund raising events. They were casual acquaintances - not friends. Most had opulent - but not necessarily flashy - lifestyles. I envied their houses (many events were held in their houses) - their private jets - their personal chefs - and - when it came to some - their art collections. I wouldn't mind living like those people live . I didn't know what these people were like in their personal lives. As with most people - I suspect they varied a lot. But to think that I have anything in common with these "billionaires next door" is kind of silly (just like I don't have anything in common with the fellows who mow my lawn).
You - like other people - often use the phrase "stuck up". I have zero idea what that means. What does it mean to you?
I do think that different people have different personalities. Some are open and chatty. Others more reserved. And - the way people interact with other people often depends on how close they are. I am much more open with friends than I am with casual acquaintances. And I think most people are like that.
When it comes to people I think of as friends - we rarely if ever discuss money per se. Although - depending on the friend - we might talk about things like investment ideas or travel plans or condo fees or other things we spend money on. We also usually try to avoid "organ recitals" (a very tiresome line of conversation that becomes more common as people get older). Most of our friends are upper middle class professionals about our age. Lawyers - doctors - dentists - accountants - etc. Like we were (before we retired - our friends are - increasingly - retired these days as well). They're mostly people we met during the course of our work. I don't think that's unusual. Making friends "at work". I also don't think it's unusual for people to have friends who are pretty much the same as them demographically. In terms of age - socioeconomic class - and the like.
Of course - most of us also have "friends" as a result of shared interests (which can be anything from golf to children's school activities). OTOH - I don't know about you or anyone else here - but - when it came to people like my "golf buddies" - about all we ever talked about was golf and perhaps some other innocuous things like local traffic issues. We never talked about really personal/important things.
Perhaps one reason my perceptions may differ from other peoples' here is because younger people are more apt to be mobile. Especially when it comes to money. In a state of getting from wherever they were when they finished school to where they will wind up when they retire. So they worry about their "place in life" over the course of the next 10-20-30 years. When you get to my age - you're pretty much at the end game. And know that things aren't going to change all that much down the road. I'm never going to wind up in a low income senior apartment. But I'll never be able to afford a private jet either. Robyn
...Really, Robyn you never met any wealthy folks that had no interest in living the extravagant life style? Not everyone lives to the maximum of their income thought that is how it seems a lot in this country. In fact most live beyond their max.
There are some people like you mention in my father's generation (the Depression generation). In my generation (Boomers) - no. OTOH - when it comes to our friends - most of whom are upper middle class (some have more) - their lifestyles aren't extravagant when compared to their means. There's a lot of ground between living in an old crummy house and driving an old crummy car and having multiple $10+ million homes scattered around the globe that one travels to and from in one's private jet.
Sometimes people seem to forget the (very large amount of) ground in the middle between the 2 extremes. Also - what many people here seem to be raising eyebrows at is middle or lower middle class people "putting on airs" with the trappings of an upper middle class lifestyle that they can't afford. I can relate to that point of view.
But our friends aren't in that category. They have no problems affording their personal indulgences. Which tend to be more expensive than a BMW. You're talking more along the lines of things like expensive second homes. Expensive boats. And - for a fair number - their most expensive indulgences were multiple marriages that didn't work out (they pay a ton in alimony).
BTW - when it comes to this area - what I see with a lot of younger people - even ones who are making a decent (although not overwhelming) amount of money - is that the cost of housing has become so high that these people don't have much money left for discretionary spending (or perhaps people simply want more house than they can afford). So you see houses that look nice on the outside with not much furniture inside (and the little that is inside is often pretty awful - some new people moved in on our block this week - and - in all honesty - the furniture they were moving in didn't seem like it was worth moving from anywhere). As a result of the lack of discretionary income - people can't afford to eat at nice restaurants - travel - etc. More and more - I am seeing younger neighbors whose parents (our age) are subsidizing them. I am not sure that living this way is different than when lower income people "put on airs" by buying a BMW.
Overall - I am a big fan of living well within one's means. Whatever they happen to be. Which includes saving for things that you have to save for (college educations - retirement - etc.). OTOH - I don't think there is any particular virtue in living a lot below one's means just for the sake of doing it. Like they say - you can't take it with you. Robyn
I will you a true story. Moving from the Northeast we had good public schools, so when we moved down here we wanted my daughter to go to an equally good school so we did a school tour through St. Johns and my daughter absolutely refused to go to Nease due to the reason you have pointed out. She was like these kids are like something you see on a TV show. So I have to agree with you.
Yep....some of these people wouldn't last a month in a school in the Northeast where the kids are not judged by their looks but rather, by their substance of intelligence and character. More reserved is also more humble. Maybe a few pictures on Instagram, but not 10 pics in a bikini with your 20 best friends ("look at me" "I'm pretty!" "I'm popular!" "I'm so cool!"), every day. Even athletes are expected to be smart to succeed - they are commonly referred to as "scholar-athletes" in the northeast.
Alright I read that article and have to respond. First some agreement. 1 Million is jack squat at today's interest rates. Yes there are people with no money that are clueless about money, investing and return on money they think if only they had a million dollars they would be a Saudi Sheikh. But reality is if you want to invest that 1M in the safest highest rated bonds then you would need to live in the wilderness in a tent to make a living. And BTW safe is relative. If inflation picks up those bond values go down down down.
Now to the article. That article talks about True Elite wealth whereby you get "Red Carpet Treatment". There idea of beer and pretzel millionaires starts at that Red Carpet Treatment level. Which brings me back to the real problem with this conversation, rich is relative. I know poor people think if they where only in that top 2% they would be rich, yet I know many people in that top 2% struggling to pay their bills. They want to be in the top 1% and the people in the top 1% of the top 1% might think the top 1% is poor (BTW got that top 1% of the Top 1% from listening to Ken Langone talking on a show once) .
I do not seem to know as many super rich people as Robyn, but I know people up to I am estimating around the 10M mark. And most got it from hard work and investing and running a business over a long period of time. They are not looking for the red carpet treatment. They own their home and cars and IMO are the true beer and pretzel millionaires. On 10M if they make a safe 4-5% and make $400K a year they are happy as they spend less than $100K a year.
But if you need to live that jet style lifestyle then you better be making a lot of money or as someone else said borrowing a lot of money. Again it is all relative and I do not see how there can be a single answer. Is top 2% rich, is top 1% rich, and so forth and so forth.
Last edited by rwbil; 06-16-2016 at 10:58 AM..
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. I didn't know what these people were like in their personal lives. As with most people - I suspect they varied a lot. But to think that I have anything in common with these "billionaires next door" is kind of silly (just like I don't have anything in common with the fellows who mow my lawn).
