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I have a couple of comments and I'm in the construction industry here in Jax.
First off blocks are not made of "cinders" any longer. They are concrete block.
Second- all homes are build to local codes. A wood frame building will meet the same wind loads as a block home. To say one is stronger than the other is not the issue. They both meet the code period.
If you feel you want to block built home you'll need to have it custom built. Developers building communities will build wood framed homes. This is not the contractors decision so don't say the GC is just trying to build cheap. All buildings are designed to meet code. If want a custom home that is 3x as strong as code, go for it and you'll be paying a premium that you'll never recover when you sell it. The market drives the value of homes, not how strong you think they are.
As far as stucco vs. Hardie board. It comes down to labor. Carpenters can install the Hardie board where as stucco is another trade and they don't have enough skilled workers. Stucco and Hardie both meet code.
An old block home which is improperly build will will fail just as easy are a improperly built wood home. Don't think that just because it is old and block it is safe. I would rather live in a NEW wood framed house that meets the current code then in a old home that I know nothing about.
If you look are some of the photos of the recent hurricane damage in SW FL you can tell which homes are newer because the structure is still standing. They are stick built to the newer codes and they survived for the most part.
Thanks for your professional opinion and for clarifying homes built with block are concrete and not cinder. I've always referred to them as concrete block, but I thought they were interchangeable when a few people mentioned them on this thread.
While I realize that homes are built to local codes, this still doesn't make me feel any better about buying a wood frame house in a coastal area, and it bugs me even more that it's not reflected in the price even though frame homes are less expensive to build.
I've looked at tons of communities in other parts of the state, and the production builders that I've looked at are building concrete block homes, as they should be, so it's not necessary to build a custom home. While I didn't look at builders like Lennar or D.R. Horton, I did drive by quite a few of those communities, and they sure looked like they're building block homes to me.
I have to admit that I'm confused about a few of your statements, which I need to think more about the next few days. When you state "This is not the contractors decision so don't say the GC is just trying to build cheap," then whose decision is it if it's not the contractors? This makes no sense to me. I can't imagine that local authorities would prohibit production builders from building block homes like they do in the rest of the state.
I'm even more confused by "If [you] want a custom home that is 3x as strong as code, go for it and you'll be paying a premium that you'll never recover when you sell it." I need to sleep on this for a few days and maybe a light bulb will come on, but, again, why is it that production builders in the rest of the state are building block homes?
And I feel like here we go again as to the Hardie Board vs. stucco issue. My question is what makes NE Florida so different that they can't find enough skilled workers to put up stucco, but builders in the rest of the state seem to find enough employees or subcontractors to do this trade? This kind of reminds me of how aggravated I get every single time that I walk into the Walmart in Venice. If I'm lucky, they'll have ONE cashier at the register helping people, and there's probably at least 20 self check outs in use. When I've often complained, they're standard excuse is "We can't find anyone to work." When I ask why is it that Publix and Target directly across the street seem to find enough workers but yet Walmart can't, they just shrug their shoulders. It's all about making as much profit as they can at the expense of the consumer, but yet I often see five or six Walmart employees standing together talking and laughing with each other or doing nothing while the consumers are doing all the work.
I agree. I looked at Rosemary Beach in NW FLA to retire to, but most homes there were stick, so I nixed the Panhandle. Cinder block homes there started at $1M back then (6 yrs ago, w/in 15 mins to beach) when I was looking, & I didn't want to go that high. Brick homes cost less, but they look out of place in FLA.
I wound up with cinder block home rated at 160 mph w/ shutters deployed for $550k in Sarasota County 5 yrs ago, so felt like I made the right decision. We never looked at the Jax area....too cold in Winter, and Ocean and beaches are not nearly as nice as Sarasota County.
Our home did fine in Ian at 100+ mph winds w/o any shutters deployed. I had 3 tiles slide down to the gutter I had to put back into place, that was the extent of the damage...$100
Although I haven't totally ruled it out, I'm probably going to nix St. Johns County like you did the Panhandle because I can tell that I'm not as excited about it now. I never considered the JAX area either because I don't like cold weather, but I recently started exploring SJC when I learned that it's supposedly the healthiest county to live in Florida, although I wish this data was at the city/town level instead. I figured it's a small price to pay if it means that I can live in a healthy county again. I'm just glad that I realized the block issue and especially that it's not reflected in home prices before I spent a bunch of time and money driving up there to look at communities and builders. When I first saw pictures of homes with the siding, my only thought was that it looked weird compared to stucco that I'm used to, but I don't know enough about that to know if it would be a deal killer or not.
You know what is behind that brick? Block or wood framing. Bricks are used as a veneer and not structural in nature.
I personally don't like the brick look myself and never have, but I grew up in Florida. When I talked to a few people regarding my concerns about the frame and siding issues, they all said that JAX is really south Georgia. I never looked at it that way before, but I now get what they're saying, mainly because of how differently they build houses up there.
If people don't want to live in a wood framed house then don't buy one, but people shouldn't say they aren't safe. People die in hurricanes because they do stupid things. They don't die because they are in a wood framed house.
My house that I owned in Central Florida for 28 years is wood frame, and it's not like I ever felt unsafe, although I would have preferred block. The biggest problem that I have is it needs to be reflected in the price of the home if it's wood and not concrete block and that's not the case in NE Florida.
You know what is behind that brick? Block or wood framing. Bricks are used as a veneer and not structural in nature.
The nicer loking higher end ones we looked at had poured cement cores. I was leery of that never having seen it before. Others were framed that cost less, but those homes were <2,000 sq ft.
We really liked the Wild Heron community in Rosemary Beach, but all frame, & too much $ for frame...& preferred to avoid golf communities, but that Sharks Tooth Greg Norman course looked amazing. I quit golf for another sport though, so didnt want the financial exposure golf courses bring.
"I have to admit that I'm confused about a few of your statements, which I need to think more about the next few days. When you state "This is not the contractors decision so don't say the GC is just trying to build cheap," then whose decision is it if it's not the contractors? This makes no sense to me. I can't imagine that local authorities would prohibit production builders from building block homes like they do in the rest of the state."
The developer decides how much they want to sell the homes for in a planned community. The developer tells the designer of the houses they want them to sell for $225K. The designer and structural engineer will tell the developer the only way you get to that price point is to go with a stick built frame. The GC builds what are on the plans. In track home construction the GC does not make the decision on how the building is designed. It is all related to how much the developer what to sell the houses for to be able to meet the demands of the market.
If it is a custom home and you want block your designer and GC will say here wood is cheaper. Than the decision is yours. In a developer community you're buying a product.
"I'm even more confused by "If [you] want a custom home that is 3x as strong as code, go for it and you'll be paying a premium that you'll never recover when you sell it." I need to sleep on this for a few days and maybe a light bulb will come on, but, again, why is it that production builders in the rest of the state are building block homes?"
Costs of construction varies in different parts of the state. N. FL and south GA lumber rules the market. We have nothing but trees around here. Therefore wood is cheaper. South FL and Central FL it's a different story.
"And I feel like here we go again as to the Hardie Board vs. stucco issue. My question is what makes NE Florida so different that they can't find enough skilled workers to put up stucco, but builders in the rest of the state seem to find enough employees or subcontractors to do this trade?"
Once again it is driven by the cost and products available in the area. See my answer above. There is a serious shortage of skilled construction workers in the state. And construction is different from one end of the state then the other.
"My house that I owned in Central Florida for 28 years is wood frame, and it's not like I ever felt unsafe, although I would have preferred block. The biggest problem that I have is it needs to be reflected in the price of the home if it's wood and not concrete block and that's not the case in NE Florida."
The market drives the cost of re-sale houses. The fact is that two house with the same size and features next door to each other are going to be priced pretty much the same. It's not as simple as the wood house should be XX% less than the block. The value/cost of the house is set by what the buyer sees on the outside of the walls, not what the walls are made of.
Let me also say that the cost of material in the last 1.5- 2 years has been going up 1.5% a month is some cases. Now it has slowed down a little but still a moving target. Availability of material is also a problem. A few months ago we couldn't get concrete. The plants couldn't get the aggregates. Who would have guess this? Some of the large housing developments were stopped. I've seen projects sit for weeks waiting on concrete to place the slab. The demands of the FL housing market is driving some of this.
I still don't understand the obsession with CB vs stick construction. We almost bought a house in Naples which was CB with hurricane windows. We wound up in PVB in a stick house with regular windows. I originally thought that CB was the way to go but all the houses we looked at here were stick. Its just the way things are up here. If you must have a CB house than buy in an area where CB is the norm. One thing I like about PVB is the nearest Walmart is 30 minutes away. We have a Target and Home Depot 10 mins away in Jax Beach.
I still don't understand the obsession with CB vs stick construction. We almost bought a house in Naples which was CB with hurricane windows. We wound up in PVB in a stick house with regular windows. I originally thought that CB was the way to go but all the houses we looked at here were stick. Its just the way things are up here. If you must have a CB house than buy in an area where CB is the norm. One thing I like about PVB is the nearest Walmart is 30 minutes away. We have a Target and Home Depot 10 mins away in Jax Beach.
We have all those and much more in St. Auggie all within 5 minutes, along with 15 mins to Costco, and a lot less traffic. If you can afford to live near the beach, there is a great selection of block homes.
I was thinking about this thread over the weekend and there is one item I didn't touch on. The material the walls are built of (block vs stick) is irrelevant if the roof structure is not property connected with the correct fastening materials. Clips, straps, threaded rods from the slab to the top of the walls are all required these days. When you are looking to buy a block wall house you can't tell if the walls are properly connected to the slab. You can go into the attic space and see that there are clips connecting the roof members to the walls, but can't look into the walls of course. Now you going to say, but block walls are so heavy the wind can't push them over. A house structure is like a house of cards. The weakest link starts a chain reaction.
Following Hurricane Andrew years ago it was determined that wind was pulling roofs off of houses several ways. One way was that garage doors were caving in due to the force of the wind on the face of the doors. The door would get pushed in and that led to the wind lifting the roofs off because the walls weren't connected properly to the roof structure. Also where there were large shady roof overhangs the wind would do the same. You have to think about the totality of the building structure. You can't have a weak point for air to enter and do damage. Doors and windows were all upgraded to have stronger connections to prevent wind blowing them in. Having all block walls on the first floor gives you a level of comfort but it goes way beyond that when designing a house.
I live in a house built in the '50's. It actually has hurricane clips from the top of walls to the roof joists. But I don't know how the walls are connected to the floor joists. Just nails will not hold them when something starts to go. My biggest concern is my open carport which share the same roof as the house. The wind could get under that and lift it right up off the ground. The columns to ground connects are the weak point. Once they let go the roof will go and the walls will follow. But I don't lose sleep over it.
Last edited by URYwood; 01-09-2023 at 01:28 PM..
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