Has downtown developed since the NFL (Jacksonville, Miami: universities, food, design)

[riveree]

Originally Posted by daedalo

But most people who live in what was the county (and now part of the city of Jacksonville) could care less about the downtown. Most people will not understand the development of Jacksonville because they are newcomers. It is a long and very discouraging story of short-sighted historical prejudices impacting city planning. I will leave it at that for now.

Originally Posted by jsimms3

daedalo, u are right in that the city leadership does suck sometimes and seems not to understand that it now also needs to look after the new downtown residents.

...but all the suburbanites on this forumhave no clue when it comes to anything besides new gated communites on the southside and clay/st. johns counties and the new strip centers and malls and highways. Want info, email me and check this site:

Moderator cut: edit: removed link

I agree that many people here in NEFL could care less about downtown Jacksonville and if you build it, they still will not come.

But I think there are also people who will come to downtown more and more often as it improves. There are plenty of suburbanites who regularly go downtown for the Art Walks and events and spend money in the bars and restaurants when they do. The more there is to do downtown, the more they will come.

There's also the reality of lifestyle. What works for you when you are 20 may not work for you when you are 40. Many cities revitalizing their downtowns are quickly realizing this. They need to cater to the 20-somethings with affordable downtown living. The million dollar condos are great, but the market for them is very small. Have plenty of available housing for under $200k, maybe even under $150k, and you'll attract a broader base of buyers.

As you get older, you often have responsibilities to others (children, pets, etc.). Your responsibilities often dictate where you live. For example, I must have a fenced backyard. I can be flexible about the size of it, but for my dogs' sake I absolutely must have a fenced backyard. I am dedicated to taking in unwanted dogs and I will do that for rest of my life. So the chances of me living in a walk-up or a high rise again are slim. Jacksonville's neighborhoods such as San Marco, Avondale and Riverside are "urban-enough" for me and I still get to have a backyard . For others, it's about their kids, the public schools, etc.

I think there is a place for everyone and our city planners need to really give some thought as to what demographic is likely to live downtown and cater to them. No matter where we live in the Jax area, a strong vibrant downtown is not a luxury but a necessity. If we can't all live downtown, we can at least support downtown by attending events, visiting the museums, etc.

[Keith-n-Jax]

Riveree you are so correct on all points. The problem I have is why city leaders dont see this. You are right some people could care less about downtown, but many of us do. Does anybody remember article in TU when Peyton is saying that we didnt take advantage of the Super Bowl. Does he not know he is the captian of the ship and inorder for it to sail he must steer it. We(citizens) just can't go downtown and make things happen, they must seek and want positive development and not hender it in the process. The new condos going up,,yea they have improve the skyline somewhat, but how many of us can afford them. Many cities our size and smaller have accomplished alot more, so somethinhg wrong here in Jacksonville.

[jsimms3]

Well Keith, Peyton may be mayor, but have you ever heard of red tape on the government side? There are a lot of people that actually have more insight and overseeing of downtown than Peyton. Peyton oversees the whole city, his staff, the city council, big deals, and the budget. Downtown is always on a mayor's mind, but keep in mind we should be turning to Ron Bartlet and others who run city organizations that cater to downtown and the JEDC. By the way, developers are the ones building the condos and apartments and they usually do studies to determine the market beforehand. The Peninsula and some of the other condos like it, the San Marco, even Berkman etc (basically the expensive condos that cater to the 40 somethings and the professionals) have done a lot better than the cheaper rentals. We keep saying that if we build cheaper, they will come. Well right now there are actually several options, and they are just waiting for more leasees. The Metropolitan, Carling, Parks at Cathedral, Strand, etc. Also, it is hard to build something in an urban environment like downtown where land and construction costs are so much more expensive and then charge a lower premium. To build downtown is more expensive, so therefore to live downtown is more expensive.

There is only one major developer I can think of that has pulled off downtown construction with suburban condo/rental prices, and that is the Atlanta based developer Novare, who looked at our city during the height of our boom. I live next door to three Novare condominiums that are 30-40 floors, and they start in the 180s for a 1 bedroom. retail on the ground floor. I do not yet know what their secret is, but not all of their developments have taken off, I will say that much, and they are not near as nice as the Peninsula, so you get what you pay for. They all have sleek glass exteriors, though. Keith, what cities our size and smaller are you talking about? And keep in mind we are Florida, people are escaping their overcrowded urban environments to come here and live in a house with a yard and spend time near the water, not so much in the urban center. Sad, but true.

[coolyfett]

Originally Posted by 6/3

Thanks for passing the info about parking in the area there Coolyfelt.

Cool man, I found a lot of cool stuff downtown, I lived in Riverside, sometimes Id get up at like 3 - 4 in the morning and go downtown just to walk around and try to discover stuff. I like to explore, You'll be surprised the things you notice when no other people are around.

[coolyfett]

Originally Posted by Keith-n-Jax

Riveree you are so correct on all points. The problem I have is why city leaders dont see this. You are right some people could care less about downtown, but many of us do. Does anybody remember article in TU when Peyton is saying that we didnt take advantage of the Super Bowl. Does he not know he is the captian of the ship and inorder for it to sail he must steer it. We(citizens) just can't go downtown and make things happen, they must seek and want positive development and not hender it in the process. The new condos going up,,yea they have improve the skyline somewhat, but how many of us can afford them. Many cities our size and smaller have accomplished alot more, so somethinhg wrong here in Jacksonville.

Keith whats up man. Yo I think some affordable apartments downtown would be great. I also think the Skyway connecting to Riverside, San Marco and Springfield would be great. The rest of the city can drive if they like. But give the city slickers some options so they to can enjoy the city. I was a big reason for me wanting to move, after being in Jax for 28 years and not seeing enough options, I finally made the move. I am still cheering for JaX to create those options.

[riveree]

Originally Posted by Keith-n-Jax

Riveree you are so correct on all points. The problem I have is why city leaders dont see this. You are right some people could care less about downtown, but many of us do. Does anybody remember article in TU when Peyton is saying that we didnt take advantage of the Super Bowl. Does he not know he is the captian of the ship and inorder for it to sail he must steer it. We(citizens) just can't go downtown and make things happen, they must seek and want positive development and not hender it in the process. The new condos going up,,yea they have improve the skyline somewhat, but how many of us can afford them. Many cities our size and smaller have accomplished alot more, so somethinhg wrong here in Jacksonville.

Until we have a well-functioning downtown, we'll never really be taken seriously as a city .

[jsimms3]

What do you mean, there are examples of cities that are taken seriously that either have a more seriously lacking downtown or one that is equally bad for their size. For instance Atlanta until 2000, Phoenix still, Orlando, Tampa (Channelside is not downtown), Miami in a way until recently, Cleveland, Dallas (has less stuff to downtown than here if you can believe it, was dead as a doornail when I went there a year ago), Houston, and the list goes on... If you put things in perspective or visit other downtowns that are not NYC Chitown Phillie Boston LA (which also gets criticized a lot for not being urban and having a thriving downtown btw) SF San Diego etc, then there are a lot of metro areas that have sorely lacking downtowns. If we got our act together, imho we would be ahead of the game.

[coolyfett]

What city is the measuring stick? New York?

[DailyJournalist]

Originally Posted by coolyfett

What city is the measuring stick? New York?

I think a good measuring stick for Jacksonville would be a city like Milwaukee.

[TXRyan23]

Just stopped in to say....

GO TITANS !