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I acknowledge the slow build out, but not that it is always a negative. Times are different right now. Slow build out means reasonably paced expansion and not trying to make a quick dime. I know your main point is resale, but because of the unique qualities that Nocatee has I believe it is more immune to that then the standard development. The builders are not generally building spec homes, so if someone is moving to the area and doesn't want to wait for a new build, then reselling your own home would be the only choice if they want to live here. People have been blown away when they have seen the job that has been done at the amenities center and I think that buying in Nocatee is as safe of a choice as there is even given the early stages of development. Besides, being in here early means we get this great place to our selves for a few years until this economy finally get turned around and all the folks come flocking in to buy.
how does home owners insurance fluctuate though?
i thought i read where insurance was cheaper depending on what side of the interstate you were on.
West of I95 vs east of I95
As a followup to my other message about insurance - this article from Associated Press was in the local JAX papers today. And you read it right - an insurance company with over 50,000 insurance policies and $3 million in capital. Gosh - if there's a major storm - maybe it can afford to buy each of its policy holders a coke! Anyway - I wouldn't do business with any of these newer companies that are thinly capitalized (many of which are close to being declared insolvent).
I acknowledge the slow build out, but not that it is always a negative. Times are different right now. Slow build out means reasonably paced expansion and not trying to make a quick dime. I know your main point is resale, but because of the unique qualities that Nocatee has I believe it is more immune to that then the standard development. The builders are not generally building spec homes, so if someone is moving to the area and doesn't want to wait for a new build, then reselling your own home would be the only choice if they want to live here. People have been blown away when they have seen the job that has been done at the amenities center and I think that buying in Nocatee is as safe of a choice as there is even given the early stages of development. Besides, being in here early means we get this great place to our selves for a few years until this economy finally get turned around and all the folks come flocking in to buy.
I think the problem with the slow build out in Nocatee can result in two possible types of problems. First - the economy continues to be slow - and you're kind of left in the middle of nowhere in unfinished subdivisions for a long time. OTOH - if the economy picks up - and construction gets back to booming (am not holding my breath for that) - then you're surrounded by construction all the time - for ages. In any event - I would check out very carefully who is paying for community amenities now - and who would pay for them if something were to happen financially to a developer in an unfinished community. You don't want to wind up in a position where it costs X to operate community facilities - the place is half finished - the developer is paying 1/2 X now - and goes belly up. Because - in that event - every homeowner would have to pay 2 X to keep things running the way they are. FWIW - there are many different subdivisions in Nocatee - and I'm sure they are all different.
And - just my opinion. If the developers could have made a "medium" dime (quick dime was out of the question because of all the planning/permits involved) - they would have. But the economy and building bust got in their way. This is my third building bust in Florida since I moved here in 1971 - and it can sometimes take a pretty long time for things to get on track again. Robyn
All of what you said is true under most circumstances. However there are circumstances at play here which I believe will prevent any of that from happening. One is the developer in this instance is the Parc group- which my understanding is basically the development arm of the Davis family, who of-coarse owned all the land that is now Nocatee. The Davis family considers this development to be a large part of their legacy for this area and it has been planned out for years and years in advance. Thus this will not be a developer who leaves it half finished, and in-fact most of the infustructure is already completed or underway. The amenities center which is remarkable and cost millions is ready to open in a couple weeks now. So there is are no promises of that type to be left unfulfilled. Toll Brothers who is the builder in Coastal Oaks (where I live) bought down 25 years of a 30 year bond in order to bring down the CDD fees to residents and make it more affordable to buy in home in this down economy. That again is not something that would be done if they were not committed to being here and did not believe in the project. Yes, the builders would love to make more money right now, but I think they realize that if they just hang in there they will turn a nice profit here, better then they would other places. This downturn is nation wide, so there is no where to go and make quick buck. Speaking for the Jacksonville area there is nowhere I would rather live then where I am right now, and I think many others will feel that way when they are able to join the housing market again.
All of what you said is true under most circumstances. However there are circumstances at play here which I believe will prevent any of that from happening. One is the developer in this instance is the Parc group- which my understanding is basically the development arm of the Davis family, who of-coarse owned all the land that is now Nocatee. The Davis family considers this development to be a large part of their legacy for this area and it has been planned out for years and years in advance. Thus this will not be a developer who leaves it half finished, and in-fact most of the infustructure is already completed or underway. The amenities center which is remarkable and cost millions is ready to open in a couple weeks now. So there is are no promises of that type to be left unfulfilled. Toll Brothers who is the builder in Coastal Oaks (where I live) bought down 25 years of a 30 year bond in order to bring down the CDD fees to residents and make it more affordable to buy in home in this down economy. That again is not something that would be done if they were not committed to being here and did not believe in the project. Yes, the builders would love to make more money right now, but I think they realize that if they just hang in there they will turn a nice profit here, better then they would other places. This downturn is nation wide, so there is no where to go and make quick buck. Speaking for the Jacksonville area there is nowhere I would rather live then where I am right now, and I think many others will feel that way when they are able to join the housing market again.
I am not sure what you mean by buying down 25 years of a 30 year bond. And - FWIW - there is more than one bond issue outstanding. Here they are:
Have to tell you - I'm an experienced muni bond investor - and these are complicated bonds (not small issues either). I won't even attempt to explain them here. About the most I can tell you is that they're unrated "high yield" (junk) munis. Also - I really don't have the time to analyze properly how these bonds affect anyone buying in the Tolomato CDD. I suspect there is some form of legal disclosure required to be given to a prospective buyer - and that disclosure - as well as the bonds - should be examined by a lawyer before buying. FWIW - if you click on the individual bond issues - you'll see the original offering documents - and the continuing disclosure documents (including recent financial reports). Robyn
Apparently - this is the only legal disclosure required. Robyn
190.048 Sale of real estate within a district; required disclosure to purchaser.--Subsequent to the establishment of a district under this chapter, each contract for the initial sale of a parcel of real property and each contract for the initial sale of a residential unit within the district shall include, immediately prior to the space reserved in the contract for the signature of the purchaser, the following disclosure statement in boldfaced and conspicuous type which is larger than the type in the remaining text of the contract: "THE (Name of District) COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT MAY IMPOSE AND LEVY TAXES OR ASSESSMENTS, OR BOTH TAXES AND ASSESSMENTS, ON THIS PROPERTY. THESE TAXES AND ASSESSMENTS PAY THE CONSTRUCTION, OPERATION, AND MAINTENANCE COSTS OF CERTAIN PUBLIC FACILITIES AND SERVICES OF THE DISTRICT AND ARE SET ANNUALLY BY THE GOVERNING BOARD OF THE DISTRICT. THESE TAXES AND ASSESSMENTS ARE IN ADDITION TO COUNTY AND OTHER LOCAL GOVERNMENTAL TAXES AND ASSESSMENTS AND ALL OTHER TAXES AND ASSESSMENTS PROVIDED FOR BY LAW."
deadpool
I hit the mother-lode of info
I was able to get through to a very nice gentleman who took the time to explain it to me
What they did was on a selection of lots they paid off the bond
The annual CCD fees are $2175 per year billed in with your property taxes so if you escrow these fees would be added your looking at an additional $181 per month for the fees
there is 24 years left on the bond
Once these lots had been sold they reviewed to determine if they were going to do the same on any further lots. They decided instead to lower the prices. He said by running the numbers it came out to be about the same.
I did not ask how much the prices were lowered but if they were basing it on the 24 years the bond has to run it could be a nice discount.
I did ask if the offer was tied into using their financing and it was not.
I know there are many other subdivisions that do not have CCD fees you have to "run the numbers" to see if looking to get into a neighborhood that does not have these fees would maybe get you a larger home. based on $8 per thousand your looking at a difference of close to $25k of housing.
Are you focused only on the World Golf Village area ?
Have to say - you guys got me interested in this. I always wondered who was paying for the new fancy road on 210. I am still trying to figure this out - so if I'm wrong - just give a holler. Just don't tell me what someone told you. If you have something in writing - that's different.
The Nocatee project was very controversial - especially in terms of building the infrastructure (St. Johns County is a pretty small county - didn't/doesn't have the money). So - to get the necessary approvals - the developers agreed to build the infrastructure (including that new road - which apparently costs over $100 mllion). The developers didn't pay out of pocket - they formed 2 (now 1) CDDs - and the CDDs issued municipal bonds - lots of them. Note that the bonds were never rated - and seem to have been sold mostly to muni junk bond funds. Don't know whether any bonds have been paid off by anyone - but there are still a lot outstanding. Longest maturity is 2040. Landowners in the CDD have to pay the interest/principal on the bonds (I don't believe they're personally liable - but any unpaid amounts become a lien on the property). So if you live in the CDD - you'll pay money to the CDD. I don't see how a developer can "pay off the bond" on a particular lot - although perhaps he can not put land in the CDD to avoid the payments (I don't know how a developer would take a lot out of the CDD once it was in - since liens on the CDD land are one protection the bondholders have if they aren't paid).
I personally would be very wary of this whole thing - and get any representations that are made about the situation in writing (from someone who can pay if they're wrong). I would also find a decent real estate lawyer who knows all the community gossip.
Guess I would also figure out what infrastructure (like community centers) is covered by the CDD - and what is covered by your HOA - so you will know the potential problem areas if something happens to the CDD and/or the HOA. Robyn
Also it was mentioned that a resale would still see the cdd fee go to the new owner
So if i owned a house for 10 years on a 30year cdd bond, then sold the house,
would the new owner just owe the cdd bond for the remaining 20 years , or would they start over with the cdd bond fee?
In other words is the bond tied to the owner - or to the property?
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