Street Car & Commuter Rail in Jax SOON! (Jacksonville, Tampa: car rental, rental)

[fsu813]

“Portland invested $73 million, which has led to $2.4 billion in private investment within three blocks of the streetcar line.”

There are many examples of similar economic boosts as well.

[fsquid]

Is there a picture of a route plan?

[fsu813]

This is from the 2030 Mobility Plan (in the original post):


Street car is the hot pink in the urban core (urban core = downtown & it's surronding unique, historic neighborhoods)

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by Joe 4520832257

...** The caveat here is that streetcars are for neighborhoods that are either 1) already at urban densities, or 2) want to grow into urban densities. So for a place like Ponte Vedra or Argyle Forest or whatever, you should use the "fake" trolley because they don't want the high density, mixed-use development that a rail line makes possible. For places like San Marco, Riverside, Springfield, Downtown, etc, a modern streetcar would be amazing and probably spur massive development and tax-base increases.

That makes sense - except I don't think of the places you mentioned (or large parts of them) as having high urban densities. They're older suburbs with lots of single family houses. Many parts of these areas are subject to strict architectural controls that might well not be friendly to high-density mixed use development - and I get the sense that a lot of residents wouldn't welcome "massive development" with open arms. Seems like a lot of people want "villages" in the urban core - not a real city.

I think I have a mental image of what you have in mind. And I'd like to see it (would be much better IMO than the sleepy little "downtowns" in San Marco and Avondale these days). But - like I said - I'm not sure this is something the people in these neighborhoods would welcome. We had a similar "redevelopment" fight recently between the owners of Sawgrass Village and nearby neighbors who wanted to freeze the shopping center in time (the 1970's ). I didn't share these neighbors' opinions - but they won - at least for now. And I guess we'll see what happens as Sawgrass Village makes its way through foreclosure/bankruptcy court. Robyn

[Robyn55]

I guess the other alternative is running these lines through currrently blighted areas that don't have "historic" protection - to encourage new development/re-development. But that would probably meet with opposition from the people who live there now. Robyn

[JBtwinz]

I just love all the articles and artist renderings of how downtown Jacksonville could look that have been published over the last 20 years I lived here. I am all for a positive change and future of downtown but realistically I have am burnt out on Vision Papers of downtown and how things could be. Somebody (city hall) has to step up to the plate to see these things through. The citys that have done well with public transportation projects had some type of credible urban core in place already and a vibrant economy that was able to finance and build saleable commercial space. With quotes like this below from the article how can anything be taken seriously.

The question first on the list when a discussion of expanding mass transit begins is, “How are you going to pay for it?”


It will probably be quite some time before streetcars are traveling along Riverside Avenue, but Boyle is ready to talk about them.


I was so happy when the buses ran from Sam's club at Dunn avenue to the Jags game. Then the city decided to have us drive further into the city to take the bus to the game. If the city can't work public transportation on a small scale then we do not need them spending more money on the scale of the Skyway. I can enjoy all things downtwon now but it would be nice to see some new and exciting things having to do with transportation and a few new buildings in the skyline.


Hopefully in the not to distant future we can come up with some kind of significant improvement to downtown other than the beauty of the bridges lit up at night.

[Robyn55]

I am more than a little burnt out too. But I guess hope springs eternal.

The "how are you going to pay for it" question is a good one. As a holder of a couple of City of JAX municipal bonds in different flavors - I've read the plans for keeping up the City's bond ratings. And they aren't very favorable in terms of opening up the purse strings for anything (which is why I haven't dumped my bonds - although I recall that with respect to one issue - the City should have refinanced it at lower rates years ago - but apparently doesn't have the financial capacity to do so).

And sometimes I think no one gets it. There was an article in today's FTU about how the part of San Marco Blvd. that runs in front of places like Bistro Aix will be torn up for at least the next 6 months starting now - right in the middle of "high season" as it were - in part to put in "street pavers". Making traffic one way on San Marco Blvd. and disrupting it. The owner of Bistro Aix - one of the most successful independently owned restaurants in the city - is understandably worried. I'm not convinced this part of San Marco Blvd. needs pavers. But - assuming it does - couldn't TPTB have started this project in April/May and had it over with before fall/winter/spring? When there are lots of football games - cultural events - holiday events - etc. - etc.? We're not talking about building an I-95 interchange that takes 3-4 years to complete. Total morons IMO. Robyn

[jsimms3]

^^^It was supposed to start a long time ago and practically be finished by now. There have been delays, and if I had to guess those delays were probably due to local business owners (reasonably) like Tom Gray, etc. Their questions/fight may have come back to bite them now that the construction is starting at a worse time.

[JBtwinz]

It is just frustrating, whether in Chicago, Boston or any large city I can usually take public transportation from the airport to downtown or navigate the city without a car. Since I moved here Seattle has completed their light rail and my home state of RI is close to finishing a major project of adding a high speed stop at the airport. In 2011 passengers will be able depart the airport and head to Boston or New York city on High speed rail. We have Skyway!

[Jimrob1]

I never thought I would be sick of transit projects, but I am. Here in Portland it is non stop streetcar constuction and this is really a small area. Our transit company is barely operating financially and is firing transit employees almost every week. Reason being our screwed up transit company is constantly in the news and now the national news. With all the poverty Portland has its a shame this money isn't spent to improve the type of society here. Jacksonville you can have some of this transit we have with my blessings. Your city and Metro is much larger land wise and much more dependent on cars than we are in Portland. Your in greater need because it looks like it would be 2030 before you had anything. Studies and construction would take years to decades before a line was actually in operation.