Suburbs are dying....Urban living is growing (Jacksonville: rent to own, high school)

[FlyiMetro]

The suburbs are becoming run down in many cities, they are starting to be neglected like downtowns were in the 70s.

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by JBtwinz

21 years ago (this weekend) I moved here, the Landing was new and my wife worked downtown for Barnett. There's still hope for the future if momentum can somehow build using the right plan and the right peope behind it.

One problem that the article pointed out is the city has pretty much pledged all the tax revenues it could pledge to prior projects/bonds for those projects. The best plans and people in the world won't help if there's no money.

And I'll give you a concrete example of why I think the article was correct in this regard. I own some 15 year JAX revenue bonds (have owned them for a long time) - 5 1/4%. They're now trading at least 100 bp more on yield than bonds of comparable ratings (which indicates to me that the revenue streams are mediocre ---> poor). The bonds could be called or prerefunded now - and refinanced at much lower rates. The fact that they haven't been tells me JAX would have a hard time raising new money in the muni market these days. Whether for past projects (these are Gator Bowl Improvement Bonds) or new ones. Robyn

[maggie88]

This has been a very interesting thread to follow and I've learned a lot. I particularly like a video that someone posted on revitalization of the river area. Robyn, my husband and I probably are probably somewhere in the middle age wise between you and some of the posters here, and your comments are very helpful. We have been looking at the Jacksonville area for sometime. We want to rent first and then see where we would consider buying. So, as an outsider looking in, Robyn's view is based on a life well lived, with a lot of common sense and a realization that no place is perfect and people find what they need in a metro area. I'm open to both more urban dwelling and more suburban as well. We've lived in NYC, visited major metro areas and now live in Twin Cities which is a pretty wonderful area minus the looong winters and we're not Midwesterners at heart. I lived in Knoxville, TN for many years as well. Not a place I would return to -- looking for more urban experience. Any thoughts here on areas to start? We'll be in the area in January.

Thanks all. And Robyn, you really hold your own here! I'm glad to read all of this.

[fsu813]

Originally Posted by maggie88

-- looking for more urban experience. Any thoughts here on areas to start? We'll be in the area in January.

There's only 3 neighborhoods to look in (besides Downtown itself): the Riverside & Avondale historic district, the Springfield historic district, and San Marco (all surrond Downtown). None will be ultra urban, but definitely considered urban for our standards:

Riverside & Avondale historic district: www.riverside-avondale.com
(lots of great info in thi site, including past news articles, events, and links to other good info, etc)

Recently named a Top 10 Neighborhood in the America: Great Places in America: Neighborhoods

Article from the London Financial Times: FT.com / House & Home - Perfectly preserved

Good video about Riverside & Avondale: The Riverside Avondale Historic District and Riverside Avondale Preservation on Vimeo









Springfield historic district: www.myspringfield.org
(lots of great info on this site, including many photo galleries, resident interviews, other orginal articles, and an open discussion forum)

Recently named the #1 up & coming Neighborhood in the South: The South's Best Neighborhoods - Photos - SouthernLiving.com

Video of Springfield: Animoto - Historic Springfield








San Marco: www.smpsjax.com & www.mysanmarco.com
(good basic infomation, some other good info linked)




These 3 neighborhoods will all have unqiue, historic homes, electic look and "feel" to their area, lots of parks, lots of tall shade trees, are the center for the arts/creative class in the city, are very walkable & bikeable, will have few national chains but many local, unqiue shops and restuarants, very close to the River and downtown amenities (theaters, arena, sports complex, museums, events, etc), each will have thier on varying degree of nightlife, and they will be just a few miles from one another.

Here are some differences:

Riverside & Avondale historic district is the most popular place to live-work-play in the city, and is becoming (if it's no already) the place to live in Jacksonville. It's a diverse neighborhood, with lot going on. Homes from the 100ks to millions here.

Springfield historic district is in the middle of gentrification. It used to be one of he wost neighborhoods in the city not so long ago, but over the last 10 years (3 years especially) it's turned into a largely middle class neighborhood. It's following the same path as Riverside & Avondale and its somewhat Riverside & Avondale lite at this point. Very diverse, with homes from 30k up to 500k here, and a lot going on as well. Since the neighborhood isn't completely finished yet, this is where you can find the most bang for your buck. This thread //www.city-data.com/forum/jacks...nville-15.html is great illustration of how many uniformed people thought/still think the neighborhood was a rotten place to live, but how they stopped chimming in with thier out of date opinions as they were educated about how it's changed, and continues to change. Heck, most didn't even know exactly where the neighborhood was. There's a lot of great info here, and you can see the progression as people become more aware what's gone on/is going on, so I suggest reading from the beginning.

San Marco is not an official historic district and is a bit more suburban in feel. It's not as diverse either, and will have homes from the 200ks to millions. Not quite as much going on here either, but it's much more active and "urban" than 90% of Jacksonville (that says a lot about Jacksonville)

These 3 areas will also be served by street car & commuter rail in the future too, as here:
//www.city-data.com/forum/jacks...-jax-soon.html


These are my favorite neighborhoods in Jacksonville, so I have a lot of good information, photos, stats, articles, news, info about what's upcoming, etc about them.

Just ask. =)

[maggie88]

Many thanks, FSU -- great info. I love the aerials. I'm really happy to read all sides of Jax here. We have a dog and a cat -- so has to be pet friendly if we rent first. Also, I train dogs so I would love to be in an area with lots of dog owners.

Lively discussions go on here and I find it so invigorating to read! Nothing like good healthy debate. I've been very interested in the areas you've mentioned above. Can you walk to a cafe in the evening in any of these areas? I'm not expecting NYC or Twin Cities but something along those lines? I've read all about the climate and compared to here? Your falls look good to me. I don't expect to walk everywhere but would like the opportunity to walk to dinner, coffee, etc. if possible.

Thanks for the response!

[jsimms3]

The only walking you are going to be doing will take place in Riverside, Avondale, or San Marco. Or Springfield. If you venture out of these neighborhoods you will be doing a lot more driving. I think you will find that our urban neighborhoods can compare very favorably to Twin Cities neighborhoods (just instead of lakes we have a river). Our downtown does not compare to Minneapolis's but is ahead of St. Paul's and we don't have a suburb as large as Bloomington or a Mall of America but we have beaches!

We are a much larger, more urban, and more progressive city/metro than Knoxville and we have a large concentration of New Yorkers (probably considerably higher than in Twin Cities), but our metro is not even half as large as the Twin Cities and we don't have a shiny new light rail like you do. I think you should come down and join the growing active community of urbanites banging on city hall's door to do something about all of the potential we have.

Also visit Metro Jacksonville | Covering Downtown Jacksonville FL, Northeast Florida, Jacksonville Transit, History, Neighborhoods, Photos to find out more about all parts of town.

[fsu813]

Originally Posted by maggie88

Many thanks, FSU -- great info. I love the aerials. I'm really happy to read all sides of Jax here. We have a dog and a cat -- so has to be pet friendly if we rent first. Also, I train dogs so I would love to be in an area with lots of dog owners.

Lively discussions go on here and I find it so invigorating to read! Nothing like good healthy debate. I've been very interested in the areas you've mentioned above. Can you walk to a cafe in the evening in any of these areas? I'm not expecting NYC or Twin Cities but something along those lines? I've read all about the climate and compared to here? Your falls look good to me. I don't expect to walk everywhere but would like the opportunity to walk to dinner, coffee, etc. if possible.

Thanks for the response!

These areas are conidered very pet-friendly, alays see lots of people walking dogs, plenty of parks, and even a new, free dog park (In Springfield, but just a few miles from the other neighborhoods as well):
Confederate Playground Dog Park | Dog Park USA

There are many, many cafes in the Riverside & Avondale neighborhood, concentrated into 3 commerical areas: Five Points, Park & King, and The Shoppes of Avondale. A fourth is developing on Stockton Street as well.

Some of the most popular are:

13 Gypsies ::: 13 GYPSIES :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Mossfire Grill The Mossfire Grill


Biscottis Biscottis Restaurant

The Brick The Avondale Brick

Orsay http://www.restaurantorsay.com/

European Street http://www.europeanstreet.com/


San Marco has 1 main dining/shopping area called San Marco Square, and a few other outliers. Here are some popular choices here:

Taverna Taverna San Marco

San Marco Deli San Marco Deli - Jacksonville Deli - Home

Metro Diner http://metrodiner.com/

The Grotto http://www.grottowine.com/


Springfield historic district hasn't developed a commericial hub yet (part of the process of restoring a neighborhood), but has eateries scattered throughout. Some of most popular being:

Three Layers Cafe http://www.threelayersacoffeehouse.com/

Uptown Market http://uptownmarket.tumblr.com/

Waffa & Mikes Middle Eastern Cafe http://www.urbanspoon.com/r/44/14843...e-Jacksonville

Fusion http://www.fusionartwinejazz.com/index.html


There's far, far more restaurants in all these areas.

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by maggie88

Many thanks, FSU -- great info. I love the aerials. I'm really happy to read all sides of Jax here. We have a dog and a cat -- so has to be pet friendly if we rent first. Also, I train dogs so I would love to be in an area with lots of dog owners.

Lively discussions go on here and I find it so invigorating to read! Nothing like good healthy debate. I've been very interested in the areas you've mentioned above. Can you walk to a cafe in the evening in any of these areas? I'm not expecting NYC or Twin Cities but something along those lines? I've read all about the climate and compared to here? Your falls look good to me. I don't expect to walk everywhere but would like the opportunity to walk to dinner, coffee, etc. if possible.

Thanks for the response!

If you train dogs - you will have to look carefully at what's allowed in certain neighborhoods. Basically - you're talking about running a business in a residential neighborhood - which frequently isn't allowed. I doubt any landlord would allow you to train dogs in a rental (big insurance problems). Most HOAs and condos would have rules against that as well. JAX currently has under consideration animal ordinances that will restrict what you want to do (assuming it's allowed today).

We know some people who do things like dog breeding here. It's pretty much something you do in areas that are zoned for farms and agriculture.

There are some very limited parts of areas where one can live and walk to dinner. For the most part - you'll be talking about driving. I would say that the most walking friendly place to restaurants is - curiously - at the condos at the Town Center (which is more suburban than urban). It is very possible to live in "urban areas" like Riverside/Avondale and San Marco and still be miles away from anything.

Our climate is nothing like the Twin Cities. We are hot about 6-7 months out of the year. Pleasant about 4. Variable in January/February (can be nice - can be cold by Florida standards).

The thing I would be most concerned about were I you is the dog training thing. Animal friendly in terms of pets is lot different than running an animal related business in your home. Robyn

[maggie88]

Thanks all, very helpful. Great restaurant info fsu -- it sounds great. It's good to know about all of the choices like we have here in Twin Cities. And jsimms, sounds like you know this area --thank you for the comparisons! Robyn -- Well, I run my business either on an "in-home" basis, meaning, I go to individual's homes and train, and I also rent out facilities for that purpose. It's my second career after being a recruiter. So, Robyn, as an esquire, are you saying that if one is self-employed, as both my husband and I are -- there are legal issues there if we rent or buy? I would not actually have dogs into my home to train. I do all of my work on site at the client's home, or in a rented space. My husband usually will have a small outside office and does work in our home as well. We pay all of the appropriate taxes, etc. for our businesses but just wondering how difficult it is down there for this? That would be a consideration.

I like this group. You all are so helpful and real thinkers and I appreciate very much.

Maggie

[Robyn55]

You shouldn't have a problem training dogs as long as you work with the dogs "off premises". As for doing work at home - many people do office type work at home these days. No one in our community has ever had a problem doing that except in a couple of cases where there was excessive traffic at the house. It's a common sense rather than a legal thing IMO. How does someone know whether you're playing multi-user games or working when you're in front of your computer? Of course - if you're talking about setting up a workshop in your garage - that would be different (but I get the impression you're talking about "desk work"). Robyn