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Old 05-14-2010, 08:18 PM
 
404 posts, read 1,262,847 times
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i like the look of these new Jags. good job with the styling. especially considering the tradition of Jag
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC & New York
10,880 posts, read 27,093,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
People need to realize that the new Jags have very little if anything in common with the Jags of just a couple years ago. Ford destroyed that brand, but at least it looks like it is on its way to recovering some former glory. Time will tell on the reliability and resale end, but these are very different vehicles and have little to compare to the older models that were so dismal.
I was just about to say the same thing. The problem with recent Jaguars was Ford. The electronics fix was great, getting rid of Lucas, and making the cars semi-reliable, but then Ford used platform branding and cheapened the marque. Jaguar was always a cut above Volvo and Lincoln, but Ford had it as the "British Volvo." The niche vehicle that was Jaguar, slotted in the premium executive class, below that of a Bentley/Rolls Royce, equal to Mercedes, though unique, was overrun by Ford.

Tata is taking Jaguar upmarket again, which is not surprising, since Ford had the Aston Martin on a Jaguar platform, which cheapened the DB7. The LS Lincoln and S-Type relationship was bad enough, but the X-Type, an unreliable and too inexpensive a vehicle to have the "cachet" of a Jaugar was clearly branding, as it was related to the Ford Mondeo.

Part of the confusion is that Volkswagen has brought Bentley downmarket, while Rolls Royce has gone upmarket under BMW. It used to be that the Bentley was the "sport" version of the Roller, in roughly the same price category, save for the cocah built RRs. Previously, the British marques were a bit more defined, since a Jaguar was an executive vehicle, with Daimler being coach built examples, that were less expensive than Bentley-Rolls Royce. Ford destroyed that with the badge engineering, and sheet metal, and Jaguar was taken downmarket in an attempt to do everything from small car to wagon. The only thing Ford didn't do was rebadge a Navigator as a Jaguar SUV.

Maserati has more in common with the Jaguars of old, before Ford's electronics fix. They are tempermental, yet look beautiful, and run when they feel like it, and have values that drop significantly. My brother's neighbor has a Quattroporte that he's cursing at more often than not, and motoring around town in the family Volvo wagon, because the trident has thrown yet another fit -- and, that's a car that was purchased new, and has been babied.

Jaguar is moving in the right direction to be a competitor in the lucrative executive luxury car class. If they can recapture the offering of a unique package in a production built car, they can stand out from the competition for those who want something different. Simplifying the line, and dumping the shared platforms was a step in the right direction. Just like what Tata has done with the LR4, the new Jaguars are bold, and different from their predecessors. If they can get them to be safe and reliable, then they will be formidable competition for other luxury manufacturers.

I had an XJR that was a wonderful car, when it worked. It was nicely styled, if a bit cramped, and old fashioned (but in a good way). It was fairly reliable, but not to the standard one would have anticipated by the price alone. Having had Jaguars in the family when I was a child, the tempermental modern Jaguar was much more easy to live with, but there were some fatal flaws, done under Ford's ownership that were ruining the promise of the vehicle. I'm sure it was a case of cutting cost to maximize profit, as is usual for large auto makers, but with Tata, they're not proven in the West, so they have to put on their best show upfront if the investment in the luxury marques is to survive.
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Last edited by bmwguydc; 05-14-2010 at 09:22 PM..
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Old 05-15-2010, 07:31 AM
 
Location: U.S.A.
3,305 posts, read 9,872,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViking85 View Post
Ford doesn't have a comparable product to this car, and sporting credentials is not what they're sold on.
Well, can you blame them for wiping their hands clean of Jaguar garbage? Don't get me wrong they are really nice cars, until you drive them off the lot.
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Old 05-15-2010, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,489 posts, read 10,250,044 times
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Originally Posted by Lux Hauler View Post
Well, can you blame them for wiping their hands clean of Jaguar garbage? Don't get me wrong they are really nice cars, until you drive them off the lot.
Well Ford certainly didn't do much for the brand. And as far as I know the XF hasn't had any bad reliability issues so far.

Ford mismanaged a lot of the companies it owned, they had the wrong idea about the power of brandnaming, thinking they could re-badge a Mondeo, hang some new sheet metal on it and call it an X-Type, it's just not how you do things.

Same with AM, who's now producing relatively reliable cars, with absolutely stunning designs.
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Old 05-15-2010, 09:36 AM
 
9,831 posts, read 20,003,325 times
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Jaguar is up there in the JD Power ranking for quality now.

They took a huge step forward with the XF and I like the XK as well. The XJ I haven't got my hands on yet.

I can't remember details now, but Tata has some good plans for the future through the next decade with new platforms and engines coming.
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Old 05-15-2010, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,694 posts, read 28,356,313 times
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I am curious as to why the Jaguar shown in the link in the first post is said to have a black interior. It looks gray to me.
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Old 05-15-2010, 05:16 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
1,976 posts, read 3,202,836 times
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I liked the previous bodystyle compared to this one. It was so classy, This one just seems..i dunno. The front end is very nice, the rear has me confused. I really like the XF though *Shrugs*
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Old 08-06-2010, 09:14 PM
 
81 posts, read 261,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Hauler View Post
Well, can you blame them for wiping their hands clean of Jaguar garbage? Don't get me wrong they are really nice cars, until you drive them off the lot.
I love my "garbage", I own an S Type and an X Type, 95,000 and 57000 miles respectively and they have never spent a day in a shop. The interiors/exteriors are beautiful and they drive like a dream. I have driven BMW and Mercedes and will only drive a Jag. Try it sometime...if you can.
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Old 08-06-2010, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
10,985 posts, read 23,783,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacher View Post
I love my "garbage", I own an S Type and an X Type, 95,000 and 57000 miles respectively and they have never spent a day in a shop. The interiors/exteriors are beautiful and they drive like a dream. I have driven BMW and Mercedes and will only drive a Jag. Try it sometime...if you can.
not many jag dealers around and now that they are owned by Tata motors it makes me even more leary about them and their long term reliability.

ford did a good job of getting them up to spec and made them decent but now it is up in the air if they will hold their value.
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Old 08-07-2010, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 12,293,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViking85 View Post
Well Ford certainly didn't do much for the brand. And as far as I know the XF hasn't had any bad reliability issues so far.

Ford mismanaged a lot of the companies it owned, they had the wrong idea about the power of brandnaming, thinking they could re-badge a Mondeo, hang some new sheet metal on it and call it an X-Type, it's just not how you do things.

Same with AM, who's now producing relatively reliable cars, with absolutely stunning designs.

The XF was done under Ford, and the XJ was started there, as was the current XK. AM developed the absolutely stunning DB9 under Ford and the V8 Vantage, as well as the DBS and Vanquish.

Sory, but BOTH brands woud be dead now if it weren't for Ford. Same with Land Rover.

People that think Ford did horrible things for those brands are simply dead wrong.
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