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Man do I hear yasss....I have a BS in Engineering Physics and I had been thinking of doing the grad school thing. But I talked with a postdoc in Bio Physics at Uni. of Texas Austin and what he told me was so very discouraging. So many adjunct/assistant/associate profs running around in the hard sciences who will never get tenure, and never be in the hunt for grant money. On top of that, NIH/NSF are both cutting funding for the sciences, so it will be far harder to get any research money. So if there is less money being put into research then it becomes pretty evident that those fields are going to be shrinking, in terms of the number of jobs in the private sector. That's due to the fact that much of the academic R&D get licensed to companies that go and make stuff based on the academic work.
And you're right, we've been scammed into thinking that we need more of us to go into the hard sciences/engineering in order to compete. But where are the jobs, and how the hell can we have any need for those fields if we don't build things anymore. We have no electronics sector, no industrial sector, nothing that would even hint of the need for scientists or engineers. But they get a lot of us to go deep into debt in order to keep feeding the education pimps who rely on student loans to survive....
I have Physics BS too and was duped into believing my science degree would lead to many career opportunities both within and outside of science. You are right there is so much competition for the few university teaching jobs as well as government jobs that it isn't even worth throwing away 6+ years just to get a useless PhD. Definitely do NOT do grad school. I almost fell into that trap but withdrew from the physics PhD program after a couple weeks. I finally had the wisdom to realize academia is a dead-end street with no career prospects. I'm actually appalled how people like us with strong science backgrounds can't even get a response from entry level finance jobs that would take all of five minutes to learn.
Science and engineering jobs are being sent to India for 20 cents on the dollar. India pumps out 300k to 400k worth of engineers every year. A good engineer in India is about 20k. Even less in China who also pump out about 300k to 400k worth of engineers every year. My uncle's son has a degree in Biomedical engineering works 2 part time lab jobs. He makes 8 bucks an hour. My uncle is also an engineer and also worked in IT. Now works in a non profit makes 40% of what he use to make. His buddy also an engineer has been out of work. It must be at least 15 months at this point.
You have to take your engineering degree and make something really cool and sell the product for tons of money.
I also question the quality of engineers that india and china are producing? Not that it matters because nothing complex really gets built in the USA anymore, we dont even have the capability to produce heavy water, refine rare earth metals, etc. A new refinery has not been built since the 70's.
I have Physics BS too and was duped into believing my science degree would lead to many career opportunities both within and outside of science. You are right there is so much competition for the few university teaching jobs as well as government jobs that it isn't even worth throwing away 6+ years just to get a useless PhD. Definitely do NOT do grad school. I almost fell into that trap but withdrew from the physics PhD program after a couple weeks. I finally had the wisdom to realize academia is a dead-end street with no career prospects. I'm actually appalled how people like us with strong science backgrounds can't even get a response from entry level finance jobs that would take all of five minutes to learn.
I talked with one Physics prof who thought we should go on for our PH.d's. When he came to what we were going to get paid and what would be our work schedules, I said to myself that this guy is some kind of jerk if he thinks anyone should work that hard for that little money. The guy was running two labs, was making high six figures and he was regaling us with just how great it would be to work at labs such as his for about $3/hour. The jackass didn't realize that a bunch of us were over the age of 30 and not some 21 year old who hadn't been outside his parents front yard. My buddy told him he was freaking crazy that anyone should work under those conditions and why should they if research money was being cut anyway.
The incident went on to underscore that even profs that you may think are working for your best interests in many cases aren't doing that at all. It's as if the tenured profs are the frat boys who run the place and the rest of us are eternal pledges who'll never get into the club.
I'm actually appalled how people like us with strong science backgrounds can't even get a response from entry level finance jobs that would take all of five minutes to learn.
Why would this be surprising...there are already a bunch of people with finance/accounting/business degrees, certification, and experience. Companies have more than enough of those candidates to pick the best and brightest among them.
Why would this be surprising...there are already a bunch of people with finance/accounting/business degrees, certification, and experience. Companies have more than enough of those candidates to pick the best and brightest among them.
That's a fair point but I was told many people with physics degrees go into finance and that the physics degree stands out from just another finance/business degree to employers. Some of the physics majors at my school went into finance, but they graduated pre-recession. Again I'm talking about entry level jobs that require no experience.
That's a fair point but I was told many people with physics degrees go into finance and that the physics degree stands out from just another finance/business degree to employers. Some of the physics majors at my school went into finance, but they graduated pre-recession. Again I'm talking about entry level jobs that require no experience.
When I was almost laid off in 09 I applied for alot of jobs and have been ever since, when I sit and think about it I did not see one job in my search that was entry level, in fact the 5 years expereience and a PE was just enough to get an offer (which was commensurate for my experience).
I saw NO entry level engineering jobs, at least in my area and for my particular disipline of engineering, even now and then you would see an entry level civil engineer position pop up but it was rare.
Of course now when I think even more it was still rare to find entry level even in 04 which makes me wonder if there ever was a time when the market was flush with entry level positions. I am trying to cross into electrical and cant even get companies to talk to me, not even about a job but just to talk about the profession and im already a chemical PE taking classes in EE lol.
I remember graduates complaining about the lack of opprotunity in 04 as well. I heard in 99 things were moving and shaking when I started college but it seems like ever since then things have been going down hill.
The incident went on to underscore that even profs that you may think are working for your best interests in many cases aren't doing that at all. It's as if the tenured profs are the frat boys who run the place and the rest of us are eternal pledges who'll never get into the club.
That is just so true. People think of the Ivory tower as some pure place of higher learning when in fact it is a cesspool of corruption, conflicts of interest, and disfunctional/sociopathic personalities. Universities desperately need cheap TA's and lab techs and love grad students. If you are any good the professor will keep you there for 7 years until you are ready to report them to the provost. If you are struggling they will use you for labor and let you languish. Mentorship is in short supply in academia.
I would definitely not recommend Americans go to Ph. D. programs unless they are very sure they will be in a useful field and that the Professor really means to mentor and not use you. There is a really good reason why Ph. D. programs are increasingly populated by non-citizens and it isn't that Americans are too stupid... it is that they are too smart.
The OP is in southern California. The unemployment rate is much higher there than other areas of the country. Give him a break.
Southern California's unemployment rate is at 12%. I do not know what Northern California or central California is, though the city of Modesto is at 17% (agricultural cities and towns are particularly hard hit).
Trying to make any sense out of this economy is stressful in itself. We all know this is not a recession and MSM will not ever call it a Depression, but it is.
And companies are consistantly lobbying for the government to open up more H-1B visas. & H-1B's who work "at but not for" universities are amazingly not covered by the cap.
In this time of high unemployment even of well degreed and experienced workers, I don't understand why we need any H-1B workers for many years . . . . . or could it be $$$$$ & not education that is the deciding factor?
What it seems to do is discourage people from getting science, tech, or advanced degrees - making "under-educated" a self-fulfilling prophecy....
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