Every College Graduate has a diploma, what EXTRA do you offer?

[andywire]

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

Well, you do the loose/lose mix up quite a bit. You do it when you're complaining about college grads. I've never said anything about it before, and didn't want to make a direct call, but just wanted to pass a tip tonight.

Any how, the continual b*tching about grads, from anyone without a degree really, just comes off as insecurity from where I sit.

Thank you for the correction. I will work on correcting that in the future. See that... I'm humble about my mistakes That's something I think the younger crowd is going to have to work on, not necessarily grads.

And I am not complaining about grads. As I've often said, we need educated people, especially with the job market demanding higher skilled and more capable workers. What I complain about is some of the traits I have encountered on the job working with the fresh grads. Many have not realized that the real learning starts when they learn how to apply the theory they we're taught in a practical work environment. More often than not, the real learning begins on the job. I personally didn't like my time in college, because there was nothing there that interested me, or would benefit me in my career, other than perhaps engineering. Either way, it wouldn't be of benefit to me financially, and my goal in life is not to work for someone else for 30 years. Am I loosing sleep because someone, somewhere, in some corporate headquarters might not consider me for their precious job??? You can be the judge on that one.

And if I have hurt any of your feelings... Well, better have some thicker skin if your planning to live up to your potential. There are a lot more meaner and nastier SOBs than me, trust me.

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by andywire

Thank you for the correction. I will work on correcting that in the future. See that... I'm humble about my mistakes That's something I think the younger crowd is going to have to work on, not necessarily grads.

And I am not complaining about grads. As I've often said, we need educated people, especially with the job market demanding higher skilled and more capable workers. What I complain about is some of the traits I have encountered on the job working with the fresh grads. Many have not realized that the real learning starts when they learn how to apply the theory they we're taught in a practical work environment. More often than not, the real learning begins on the job. I personally didn't like my time in college, because there was nothing there that interested me, or would benefit me in my career, other than perhaps engineering. Either way, it wouldn't be of benefit to me financially, and my goal in life is not to work for someone else for 30 years. Am I loosing sleep because someone, somewhere, in some corporate headquarters might not consider me for their precious job??? You can be the judge on that one.

You have limited experience when it comes to uni, but you make a lot of assumptions, many of which are off base. You and a few others on this forum remind me a bit of my dad. He also makes assumptions and has a few relatively baseless opinions. To him academics are the evil intellectuals, snooty morons who "don't have any common sense", and perpetuate an undeserved class divide. He extrapolates impressions that result in a mountain/molehill. I'm not saying that's the exact case for you and others here, but I get a similar vibe.

To address what is learned in school vs on the job- this will depend on industry and career path. Ime, neither formal education or whatever job a person currently has is terminal. We always have to be trained for a job. This will be the case with or without a formal education. If someone is in an industry or career path that is not development focused, I can't imagine the education really making a difference. OTOH, if professional development is on the agenda/horizon then the individual with the education is fortunate. S/he has more tools in her/his tool box. How much of a boon this will be will depend on the person.

Further, while it may not be your experience, ime uni indeed prepares a student for the workforce. I had opportunity for experience in college I would never have gotten in industry off the bat. It was my research in college that landed me the job in industry. Without it I'd probably be in a dead end tech job. The college experience is what the person creates. The resources are there to make something while in school.

And if I have hurt any of your feelings... Well, better have some thicker skin if your planning to live up to your potential. There are a lot more meaner and nastier SOBs than me, trust me.

It's not about hurt feelings on my end that I'm concerned about.

[summer22]

Originally Posted by Workaholic?

2) Why are so many students graduating with absolutely no work experience at all? About 50% of applicants have never worked any job at all, not even in retail or fast food.

Because those jobs are now being filled by people with 5 or 10 years work experience, who have no other choice but to work in fast food or retail. The new reality is, and there's been news articles showing, that most high school kids don't get jobs. Now for college grads - I can relate to your point. In college there is USUALLY an opportunity to work somewhere on campus, through work-study programs, or at the library or recreation center. I can't tell you if there are as many opportunities as there are interested applicants.

Originally Posted by Workaholic?

Even students who did an internship show no understanding of business. They don't seem to understand office politics, motivation, morale, supervision, time management, how things get done, hierarchy, the role of various departments in a business, etc.

These things take a good 10 or 15 years to understand. They're not common sense and they don't operate via rules of common sense. Office politics, workplace bullying, rigid controlling hierarchies - are not how life works or should work in normal circumstances. They're not normal and I don't really think they can be "taught" except by observing these dysfunctional settings over years of time.

Originally Posted by Workaholic?

4) Why are the applicants who graduated from college last year so unfamiliar with how adults talk? They seem so ill at ease and unfamiliar with things like eye contact, listening skills and understanding interpersonal dynamics in the adult world. Didn't they ever talk to their parents or adult relatives?

Again, look at culture today. When I was a kid in the 1970's-1980's, I was able to walk/bike around my city neighborhood freely, the neighbors gathered on front porches, and I had tons of conversations, I was actually more comfortable talking with adults than with my own peers because I had better conversations with grown-ups. Now, families sequester their kids inside "to keep them safe." Every activity is structured, not unstructured. There's not many opportunities to grow that confidence and independence.

Originally Posted by Workaholic?

5) Finally, if the recruiters hear the words MANAGEMENT TRAINEE ever again they will scream. So many recent college graduates think that if they graduate some huge company is going to hire them in some management trainee program where they will be taught how to do a job in one of the business functions. They are asked what aspect of business most interests you, and the typical response is, "you hire me and train me and I am flexible, anything is fine, I just need a job!"

In friendlier, more progressive, and more nurturing companies, there are very good management training programs. Retail and tourism industries do a very good job with this. The companies offer structured programs with a curriculum and schedule that bring their trainees up to speed.

[summer22]

Originally Posted by Workaholic?

I still maintain the typical recent college graduate that is complaining there is no jobs out there did not work hard enough on developing career, business and workplace communication skills while in college. They put all their effort into getting an A in a liberal arts class- like Political Science, and not enough into their internship, workplace communication, poise, professionalism and understanding how to sell themselves as a job applicant.

Everything they do while in college should be directed at getting themselves prepared for their upcoming career after graduation. Just because you got an A in that Political Science class does not mean that you can market yourself to employers when you graduate at age 22. An Acting class that will build poise and confidence is far more valuable than that A in a Philosophy or History Class. Attending a Professional Association for people in your career or getting a mentor in your field is also important. Make your contacts while in you are in college. The Career Planning and Placement Offices in Colleges are angry that the students don't use their services until their Senior Year. The students instead should be working with that office throughout their college career!

You do have some good points here, and in this economy, students absolutely should be getting involved, interning, volunteering, getting experience in a live workplace setting and in the related organizations where they can network, build contacts, and build professionalism. Some say the fault lies with the way colleges advise students. Your perspective puts the brunt of the pressure on the students themselves. I agree you have some good points here - how do you propose that this message get delivered to college kids? Should it be the responsibility of the high schools, the colleges, the parents?

[redroses777]

I am stranded and lonely so I can work a lot of overtime.

I am a weekend traveler so I have had lots of experience working with a variety of different types of people.

[andywire]

Originally Posted by summer22

You do have some good points here, and in this economy, students absolutely should be getting involved, interning, volunteering, getting experience in a live workplace setting and in the related organizations where they can network, build contacts, and build professionalism. Some say the fault lies with the way colleges advise students. Your perspective puts the brunt of the pressure on the students themselves. I agree you have some good points here - how do you propose that this message get delivered to college kids? Should it be the responsibility of the high schools, the colleges, the parents?

Let's first acknowledge whose who in this equation... They are not "college kids". They are full grown adults who must plot their path in this world. If they choose not to act like it early on, their lives will suck. Considering that k-12 doesn't teach much of anything and doesn't always properly allocate limited resources wisely, don't expect them to assume the responsibility. Parents are busy slaving away at their jobs... That's out. Colleges are responsible for educating thousands of students. Try as they may, many will slip through the cracks. And if the student doesn't learn what they should, do they care? The students are merely a customer, and it's always buyer beware.

So yes, it will be the student inevitably bearing the brunt of the burden when it comes to their learning. Not just getting good grades, but learning how to become competitive in this ever more competitive world. That is of course, if they are there to learn and become successful young adults. If course, you will always have that group of students who are simply there to chase young meat and do some drinking as well. If they turn out to be a flop, I wouldn't exactly call it a tragedy.