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Spm I agree with you luck is involved in poker so what, luck is also involved in chess,pro basket ball and many other games.I am a horrible chess player but I sometimes beat players WAYYY better than me, how, its all luck.Dose that mean I can beat that player all the time,hell no he has more SKILL than me but I can get lucky sometimes.Same with poker.Dose that somehow mean the poker pros are less skilled because they they win 56% or 60% of the time, HELL NO.From what I gather is you dont think you or others can consistently win at poker because theres too much luck involved.There are thousands of people who make a living playing poker who would beg to differ.And I love your little nugget about poker players that have equal skill will face more instances of luck.Well duh,thank you enistein for that revelation.If your aim is to make money and not test yourself aginst the best why would you play poker with players that are equal or better than you?(with the only exception being late rounds of large tournments,and learning new skillsets)A winning poker players most powerful weapon is proper table selection.I am sorry you can't grasp that simple concept.Well i should expect as much coming from a guy who thinks blackjack is poker.
Thanks lord,we really appreciate your expertise in these matters. Sorry you got your panties in a wad over how much of poker is luck and how much is skill. LOL You`ve been quite entertaining. Please post some more about it. I get a kick out of reading you post.
They are easier to find if their in a bunch.But I like to listen to people who seldom win.They blame everything but themselves.It was the dealer,someone was cheating,stupid players,the cards are not in the right flow,better players and luck.How about switching tabels or improving your game.
If you are not assured a win rate of a long period of time then you are clearly worse than the average player.
ugh.....
If you were playing a game that required actual skill, like basketball, you could make that inference, over a long period of time.
If a person draws marbles out of a bag, one white and one black, and draws the black one 100% of the time, are they clearly worse at drawing a white marble then the average person, since the average person, over time would likely draw at a 50/50 rate?
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Originally Posted by Raiden777
I don't know how anyone that has ever played a poker game could think that someone can't be better than someone else. And if they can then obviously they will win over a long number of hands (similar to blackjack)
Its NOT similiar to blackjack. Blackjack uses an unshuffled deck continuously, while poker decks are shuffled. It is possible to count cards in blackjack. In poker, your "skill" is determined by the inherent weakness of other players. You rely on being able to "read" weaker players, or bet more efficiently. It is not you being good, its you being able to leverage slight advantages over time to overcome the dumb luck nature of the game in the long run.
If it were all luck there would be no professional players and there have been for decades. If someone has the money and takes the time to learn, they can make a living on some level but they will have to spend way more time and effort than with a regular job.
There are very few people that consistantly make a living off of poker. The margin for those "beating" the normal odds is razor thin for any period of time, and, over very long periods of time, will become thinner for most players.
Spm I agree with you luck is involved in poker so what, luck is also involved in chess,pro basket ball and many other games.I am a horrible chess player but I sometimes beat players WAYYY better than me, how, its all luck.
"Luck" in chess or basketball means that the clearly better player was drunk, injured, or having a horrible off day. Thats not remotely the same "luck" that is involved in poker, which is akin to the guy who rolls the correct combination of dice rolls to pick up all the orange and red properties in monopoly.
If you were to take the "greatest" poker player, and put them against an average player, their win percentage might be "positive" at the end of the day, but the average player would probably win a decent share, but if you put the greatest chess player against the average player, their win percentage would almost certainly be 100%.
That is how you can tell the difference between luck and skills.
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Originally Posted by lordvader44
Dose that mean I can beat that player all the time,hell no he has more SKILL than me but I can get lucky sometimes.Same with poker.Dose that somehow mean the poker pros are less skilled because they they win 56% or 60% of the time, HELL NO.
Actually a win percentage that low does prove that either A. skill has very little to do with anything, or B. All participants are of equal skill and the difference is largely small nuances or isolated situations that one person was able to take advantage of.
Either way, it absolutely proves that skill has little to do with determining the outcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordvader44
From what I gather is you dont think you or others can consistently win at poker because theres too much luck involved.There are thousands of people who make a living playing poker who would beg to differ.
I bet you the number of people able to duplicate the average US wage consistantly over the course of 20 years playing poker is practically non existant.
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And I love your little nugget about poker players that have equal skill will face more instances of luck.Well duh,thank you enistein for that revelation.If your aim is to make money and not test yourself aginst the best why would you play poker with players that are equal or better than you?(with the only exception being late rounds of large tournments,and learning new skillsets)A winning poker players most powerful weapon is proper table selection.I am sorry you can't grasp that simple concept.Well i should expect as much coming from a guy who thinks blackjack is poker.
So basically, the biggest "skill" in poker is being able to find "noobs" and feast on them? So THATS where all the bullies graduated to.
luck is also involved in chess,pro basket ball and many other games.I am a horrible chess player but I sometimes beat players WAYYY better than me, how, its all luck.Dose that mean I can beat that player all the time,hell no he has more SKILL than me but I can get lucky sometimes.
This is where you lose all credibility..comparing chess, basketball, and other games of skill to poker, which is mostly luck.
You will never and I mean never be able to beat a professional basketball player one on one. You will never beat a world class chess player one on one. You will never beat a professional swimmer in a race. You will never beat a professional golfer in a round of golf. You will never beat a professional bowler in any given game.
But, you have a decent chance of beating a professional poker player in any given game.
All of those other games are overwhelmingly based on skill,with a little luck involved. Poker is overwhelmingly based on luck, with a little skill involved. Do you see the difference now?
It`s quite obvious when you compare poker to games that are skill based.
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Same with poker..Well i should expect as much coming from a guy who thinks blackjack is poker.
Not the same with poker..well, I should expect as much coming from a guy who is trying to compare poker to chess..lol
So basically, the biggest "skill" in poker is being able to find "noobs" and feast on them? So THATS where all the bullies graduated to.
Exactly! That`s why I was trying to get him to understand. A more experienced player at anything, has the upper hand against a lesser experienced player. But you hit the nail on the head. In games or sports that are mostly skill based, an amatuer will never win one on one. Not so with poker.
would you bet the mortgage on a pro chess player beating an amateur in any given game of chess....yes
would you bet the mortgage on a pro basketball player beating an amateur one on one in any given game.....yes
would you bet the mortgage on a pro poker player beating a novice in any given game of poker....NO
I do understand that spm62.But when you sit down in a limit cash game for the night you dont play one round with the table then get up and leave and go home. You play hundreds of hands a night and if your online it might be thousands.Just look at how bad poker players play.Sure there are nights when the noob has a giant stack and his bad play is getting rewarded.But geuss what, that stack will be gone in a couple of hours or the next time he plays.You guys obviously don't spend alot of time in poker rooms.I've babysat these guys for a living(pokerdealer) 8 hours a day 5 days a week for 8 years.This is how a bad to average poker playes play .He sits down, plays most, sometimes every hand.Likes to play to the turn or river even if its been raised.Like clockwork I will be calling "checks please" to the chip runner so he can buy back in for another hundred dollers.Where dose this money go.It gos to the rake, the dealer(tips), the waitress(tips) and to the players that play winning poker(remember 5% of all poker players).And you dont have some sort of superstar just be better the most at your particular table.And whats wrong with picking on inferior players.You do want to try and make money, right?
What is the normal percentage a casino takes as a rake? Does that come out of every pot before the winner gets to take it? do many casinos employ a "plant" who is an expert player to sit in games and play for the house, unbeknownst to the other players?
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