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Because they are dishonest crooks. They hope that they can get a great worker for a penny above minimum wage thanks to the worker being willing to take anything. It's just another form of exploitation. Nobody in their right mind would say... go to look at cars to purchase without having any idea what the price is. Or, go house shopping without checking the price. But we're all expected to fill out the applications and play the game without knowing the salary - it's not like we have bills to pay - and then be grateful when we're badly underpaid since there's probably 10 other people who'd like that job.
All I can say is that this nation did a great job blowing it and now we have Great Depression II, despite whatever nonsense we hear about the economy "improving."
In the first two examples, you are the buyer; the last one, you are the SELLER.
Let me ask this, when you go buy a car or house, is it normal for the seller to expect you to disclose your budget?
In the first two examples, you are the buyer; the last one, you are the SELLER.
Let me ask this, when you go buy a car or house, is it normal for the seller to expect you to disclose your budget?
Well, if you're taking out a loan to buy the house (or car), banks (these days) will expect to have some idea of your budget in an effort to prevent a return to the Housing Bubble years of people making $20,000 a year with no savings buying $500,000 homes. So, yes, unless you are a cash buyer, some one involved in the transaction will expect budget information.
Here's my point: Anyone who's getting into a large transaction, be it buying a house or car or committing to a place to work needs to know how the numbers are going to work out: can they afford it, basically. Just as nobody in their right mind would spend lots of effort looking at homes with unknown prices, job-seekers shouldn't be expect to put up with nonsense when asking about wages. I get the whole "buyer vs. seller" thing, but that still doesn't make exploitation right even if the market will bear it.
Because it gives them an advantage over job applicants. Information is power, and one of the main weapons employers use to control both current and prospective employees is to limit their access to information.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123
Here's my point: Anyone who's getting into a large transaction, be it buying a house or car or committing to a place to work needs to know how the numbers are going to work out: can they afford it, basically. Just as nobody in their right mind would spend lots of effort looking at homes with unknown prices, job-seekers shouldn't be expect to put up with nonsense when asking about wages. I get the whole "buyer vs. seller" thing, but that still doesn't make exploitation right even if the market will bear it.
Maybe my experiences are atypical, but generally on the very first phone screen whether we're in the same ballpark salary wise is determined before we even go on to interview stage.
Because they want to see if they can give you a lower salary than what you may or may not deserve. If they post it as 50K, they would have to give you 50K. If they "negotiable" or "will discuss", maybe you get 51K or maybe you get 49K.
In the first two examples, you are the buyer; the last one, you are the SELLER.
Let me ask this, when you go buy a car or house, is it normal for the seller to expect you to disclose your budget?
Well, generally speaking if you are going to buy a car and can afford to spend $20,000, you aren't going looking at Bentleys and Porches. Same with buying a house; before you tour houses a Realtor usually finds out what your budget is so you don't waste time looking at $500,000 houses if you can only afford to spend $150,000.
As noted in another thread, job titles can mean anything, it seems. I make more money today as a Senior Manager than I did as the Head of Compliance at another company. I just started a new job and I can say with certainty that even for skilled positions the title is not easily reflective of the salary. Last time I was looking for a job I had the same issue; I interviewed for and was offered a Chief Compliance Officer position that paid so little I couldn't take it and I ended up making significantly more taking a position as a regular Compliance Officer somewhere else. All those interviews were a waste of time for everyone involved and could have been avoided if they had just been upfront with their salary range.
Well, generally speaking if you are going to buy a car and can afford to spend $20,000, you aren't going looking at Bentleys and Porches. Same with buying a house; before you tour houses a Realtor usually finds out what your budget is so you don't waste time looking at $500,000 houses if you can only afford to spend $150,000.
Well, correct. But you're also talking extremes here. I don't think anyone is listing a CEO position at a mid-size company, but then only offering 15K a year. I think this is more like if you're looking at a 20K car, but will perhaps test drive a 25K car... or look at houses 10-15K above your budget - which is fairly common. In either case, it's more often that you won't disclose what your budget is to keep your options open.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikitakolata
As noted in another thread, job titles can mean anything, it seems. I make more money today as a Senior Manager than I did as the Head of Compliance at another company. I just started a new job and I can say with certainty that even for skilled positions the title is not easily reflective of the salary. Last time I was looking for a job I had the same issue; I interviewed for and was offered a Chief Compliance Officer position that paid so little I couldn't take it and I ended up making significantly more taking a position as a regular Compliance Officer somewhere else. All those interviews were a waste of time for everyone involved and could have been avoided if they had just been upfront with their salary range.
I agree job titles have a huge overlap. But there's also more to it than just the title. The IT manager of a small 20 person firm is going to pay differently than one that supports a global enterprise.
Finally - and here's the main point. If it's such a waste of time - why don't you just tell them your salary requirements.......?
Last time I was looking for a job I had the same issue; I interviewed for and was offered a Chief Compliance Officer position that paid so little I couldn't take it and I ended up making significantly more taking a position as a regular Compliance Officer somewhere else. All those interviews were a waste of time for everyone involved and could have been avoided if they had just been upfront with their salary range.
I agree. A friend just finished a round of interviewing for a medical position in a hospital. The whole thing about money sounded so flakey to me. She worked with recruiters. She'd fly out to interview (at their expense) only to find out that the money was a third under what she was making now.
What? Why waste everyone's time dancing around. It's not like hospitals have a huge pot of money that they could offer more to a stellar candidate. This is what they have to offer. Why not make it clear from the get go?
As to the suggestion that the applicant just tell them right up front they'r only interested if the job pays XX amount, that can be a tricky situation. Some employers would view that as presumptuous, as the candidate's being overly interested in the money.
I guess you could start out with telling them that to avoid wasting their time, financial realities are that you cannot accept a position that is less than full time or less than $11/hour.
Agreed, OP. That's one of the things that's making my job hunt even more tedious. I'm not in a position to accept anything less than a certain range, not even because of what I feel I "deserve", just from a practical standpoint of what I need to live on, my main concern being my mortgage.
If I weren't desperate to get away from my current job, I'd be pickier about which jobs I applied to and definitely not bother with anything that didn't list a salary, but as it stands, I need to apply to anything I can and it's frustrating when someone won't even address salary until after you've gotten to the point of an in-person interview. I would think they'd want to save their own time even if they didn't care about saving mine by weeding out anyone not interested in what they have to pay from the start.
Quote:
Originally Posted by statisticsnerd
As to the suggestion that the applicant just tell them right up front they'r only interested if the job pays XX amount, that can be a tricky situation. Some employers would view that as presumptuous, as the candidate's being overly interested in the money.
I've spoken to a number of employers (not ones hiring me, just ones I spoke to) who say they're put off by it when an applicant jumps right into salary. It's silly considering that being paid is why the average person works. To make a living. It stands to reason they'd want to know upfront how much of a living they'll be making.
It is a real pain in my profession as salaries are all over the place in science with the majority of places shopping for the cheapest semicompetent sucker especially with the infiltration of the staffing agencies. I too have been in the position of trying to evade the question only to be lowballed with $15 per hour after several interviews. There are some companies that pay a decent wage to their science staff but they are a minority. I really wish they would give a range so I could not waste any more time on the bottom feeders.
A lot of them ask salary requirements at the beginning of the phone screen which I usually have seen is a bad sign that they are of the bottom feeders category.
Usually when the position is through a recruiter (not a staffing agency) there is a salary range given.
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