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Nonsense. I've never even contemplated making someone an offer until first checking their references.
Yes right before you make an offer and only of a candidate you were seriously considering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by STT Resident
Only because I've never seen you write a single positive word and only a continual string of negatives, hope you have a fat wallet! .
I do good work and am on good terms with my coworkers so I wouldn't have a problem. However, I don't like having to ask others to take phone calls from reference checkers as a favor and couldn't ask them to do this every time I talked to a recruiter or made an application.
I told the story of my PI from grad school many times and how he secretely slandered his ex students to employers and noone suspected. The guy was a total sociopath with tenure and companies believed everthing he said and cost several companies good employees and several students good opportunities. This is why I believe references have little value. Most are either cherry picked, faked, or the negative ones are from sociopaths.
Yes right before you make an offer and only of a candidate you were seriously considering.
I only even remotely consider someone after a first interview goes well. I'll check their references right after that and before asking them back in. Don't believe in wasting my time or theirs. A lesson learned from experience.
Nonsense. I've never even contemplated making someone an offer until first checking their references.
That's not the issue here. It is about when the references are actually called.
If my references were called before every interview I have, just to decide whether or not I should be interviewed, they would probably cease to be my references.
Calling them after all interviews are complete and they are short listed is better, you can generally confirm everything they have said in whole and tailor any follow up questions to the references.
If you're trying to catch someone in a lie, it will show itself sooner or later. Either you wasted your time chasing down references or doing an interview.
Many recruiters are “pre-qualifying†their candidates these days before they present them. While this is apparently commonplace in Europe, it’s lame here in the US. When a recruiters tells me this, I tell them that I only want my references contacted AFTER I have been made a job offer. That usually ends the conversation.
OP, going forward, unless you are desperate for work, simply state to recruiters that you’ll supply references AFTER you are interviewed. The ones who have a problem with this probably don’t have a job for you anyway.
This is good advice. The people who are bothering your references won't actually have a job the vast majority of the time since there are tons of applicants and they didn't bother screening with an interview yet. The job market is crap, and it is likely to keep getting worse.
Lets use a reverse mortgage so the baby boomers can blow their inheritance, kill the economy, and then blow the last remaining bits of the wealth they had accumulated. They will be remembered as the worst generation to ever disgrace our country.
If my references were called before every interview I have, just to decide whether or not I should be interviewed, they would probably cease to be my references.
And I'm not going to wait to confirm references until someone has been "short-listed". It's worked for me for decades on both sides of the fence (as an employer and a prospective employee for someone else). Unless the references you provide are people you barely know I doubt they'd stop giving you a reference because they got a call once in a while. Now if you change jobs every few months that could end up being a problem.
And I'm not going to wait to confirm references until someone has been "short-listed". It's worked for me for decades on both sides of the fence (as an employer and a prospective employee for someone else). Unless the references you provide are people you barely know I doubt they'd stop giving you a reference because they got a call once in a while. Now if you change jobs every few months that could end up being a problem.
Some of us are conducting a more aggressive job search. I have been on interviews with 4 companies the last few weeks....
I think I have dealt with enough recruiters lately to know right away whether they will waste my time. The good ones are those who discuss an actual open position with you, send you the job description and then forward your resume to the hiring manager if everything looks good. Typically if the hiring manager likes what he sees, you will get a first round in a day or two. The recruiters who waste your time are those who spend a lot of time discussing your interests and career goals, trying to hide the fact they don't have any open positions or any that suits you. The worse ones will ask you to come in to do an informational interview with them. Note, these are not internal recruiters so this type of "interview" is a total waste of time. I've asked them directly what is the point of these interviews and they say it's like a prescreening. I suppose they want to make sure you don't look like a serial killer. Some recruiters will also ask you about recent interviews you've been on and the names of the people you spoke to just to gleam insider information. Once you've dealt with enough recruiters, you can see through all their tricks.
I think I have dealt with enough recruiters lately to know right away whether they will waste my time. The good ones are those who discuss an actual open position with you, send you the job description and then forward your resume to the hiring manager if everything looks good. Typically if the hiring manager likes what he sees, you will get a first round in a day or two. The recruiters who waste your time are those who spend a lot of time discussing your interests and career goals, trying to hide the fact they don't have any open positions or any that suits you. The worse ones will ask you to come in to do an informational interview with them. Note, these are not internal recruiters so this type of "interview" is a total waste of time. I've asked them directly what is the point of these interviews and they say it's like a prescreening. I suppose they want to make sure you don't look like a serial killer. Some recruiters will also ask you about recent interviews you've been on and the names of the people you spoke to just to gleam insider information. Once you've dealt with enough recruiters, you can see through all their tricks.
I think part of the reason some recruiters ask where you have interviewed/where you are interviewing is so that they don't submit you to a job where they cannot bill the company for their services. I can understand why, but I can see why the could use it as a sales lead themselves.
Usually the better recruiters as you say will have a job in hand and will be upfront about the client.
Agreed I try to avoid staffing agencies as they are more interested in pumping job seekers for names and information than in finding you a job. They want to know where you are applying because you know who is hiring as you are spending hours a day looking at listings and they aren't. They also want to get names of supervisors to send to their sales dept. They also have a contact quota to meet and all they are doing is putting your information into their database.
The ones that really have jobs usually aren't shy about submitting you regardless of whether you have played their games or not.
I just skyped with the recruiter. He didn't even know that much about the job and looked unprofessional. Last time I give out references to a recruiter for sure.
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