Asking for references is an invasion of privacy (job openings, work, paid)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
2/3 of the jobs I have had didn't even ask me for a list of references, or college transcripts for that matter.
I just sent in my resume, went in for an interview, and I received an offer a day or two later. Those were jobs with small companies btw, and they were professional white collar jobs.
So if you are adamantly against using references, focus your job search on small companies.
So, in essence you are saying, employers get to make their own rules regardless if they violate the law. Since I have the ability to go somewhere else, I should just ignore what's going on behind their "private" doors?
This is a democratic nation and while applying for jobs today, over 90% required me to list references to even send in an application. Employers have no right to pry into my life and ask people about me; yet over 90% require me to submit to this?
Asking for references does not violate any laws. If you don't want to give references start your own business and you won't have to give them.
I would never hire someone who couldn't give me the names of three people who would say something nice (or even neutral) about them.
If OP ever has a child, I wonder if he will stick to his principles and refuse to check references for babysitters. Or maybe when he needs his roof replaced he can just hire the first person he finds. No need to bother anyone for a reference, after all. It's unconstitutional. Or something.
And, yet most of the references you speak of have no real meaning at all. Please read this article right here for how important references really are, Liz Ryan: Job References Are Pointless :Liz Ryan: Job References Are Pointless. Since I refuse to conform to this superficial ideology, I must be discriminated against? Or, worse yet give out the names and numbers of people I respect to people I don't even know?
You're wasting your own and everybody else's time.
You've made several assertions that requesting references is somehow a violation of your legal rights, and those assertions are just plain wrong.
You've made other assertions that you think you're being forced to do something when that force is no more than the practical reality that to survive one must have some way of obtaining income, and that way generally involves obtaining employment.
Many people have explained to you how wrong your claims and understanding are, yet you persist. The one thing that is clear is that you don't like the way the world works, but nothing you do, and certainly nothing you say on an Internet message board, is going to change the reality that most people will have a hard time getting a job without references.
I'm not even asking you to accept it, because the facts don't depend on your acceptance, any more than the existence of gravity does.
I am saying, though, that continuing this discussion is pointless.
The legal right of privacy has been defined as the right to be let alone, the right of a person "to withhold himself and his property from public scrutiny if he so chooses.
Why, then do the majority of jobs require references?
Even when a reference is called a "personal reference" they are still suppose to be a reference for professional purposes. The reference can still be someone you worked with. Someone like a boss who should not be interested in your personal, outside of work, life is a professional reference.
The legal right of privacy has been defined as the right to be let alone, the right of a person "to withhold himself and his property from public scrutiny if he so chooses.
Why, then do the majority of jobs require references?
As a rational human being, people I would use as references are people that I respect and do not want to see bothered by multiple people throughout their day asking trivial questions about me.
Since when do businesses have more power to pry into our lives than our own government?
Well, the way I see it is since the businesses may HAVE the jobs we need and want, the power is theirs to pry into out lives.
If I had a business I would ask for references and 'suss out' as much information as I possibly could to determine (to the extent that I could) the viability, dependability and overall character of the perspective candidates. Just my opinion and point of view.
But more...than our own government? Personally, I believe our own government does a fine and excellent job of prying into any and every aspect of our personal, social, and business lives that they have an inclination and/or desire to do so.
I am not a government employee, nor is anyone in my family...so, truth be known, I can't say with 100% accuracy, however, there's my suspicion and then...there's this:
"All of that stuff is being captured as we speak whether we know it or like it or not" -- former FBI agent
I. All Digital Communications Belong to Us
Concern intensified when on a segment of CNN's Out Front with Erin Burnett, former FBI counterterrorism agent Tim Clemente suggested that the FBI has access to every U.S. citizen's phone conversations past and present.
I'm not going to argue about my ability, as this thread is not about ME. It's about everyone in the world that doesn't have connections or doesn't feel the need to conform to "good ole' boys" philosophy. Having a job shouldn't require a person to prove themselves through gossip and naming all the people you know. It should be about whether you have the skills needed.
Now that is my opinion. I feel this way because I think as a nation and world, the only way to progress is to give everyone an equal shot. You want to test on material needed to know for the job? Great! You want to give personality quizzes? Great! Having to do other things to stroke the company ego as it flexes it's muscles? No.
We all have an equal shot. Offering references is one way to prove that. Other people that know you and can vouch for your abilities. That is what a reference is for. For those that move up in a given industry they would offer others that have accomplished similar things within that industry and those people can expound on your abilities. It is a tool and just one of many that are used to find a job.
You want to hear something about equality: Many employers are EOC employers or Equal opportunity Employers. What that means is that if I have a job with 15 requirements and you only have 14 of those requirements, I can not even interview you. Not that it has anything to do with references but if one of the requirements is to offer them and you don't then guess what? No interview for you.
Why would you assume the op is a troll when some others who post here have equally imbecilic objections?
I think it's a new trend some younger people are buying into.
Is that new trend ignoring reasoning and contrary opinions? The OP can take any stance he/she wants. However, when an OP clearly ignores and doesn't address the response provided, then yeah...I smell troll.
This whole discussion would be over if the OP simply addressed the idea of "choice."
You want to hear something about equality: Many employers are EOC employers or Equal opportunity Employers. What that means is that if I have a job with 15 requirements and you only have 14 of those requirements, I can not even interview you. Not that it has anything to do with references but if one of the requirements is to offer them and you don't then guess what? No interview for you.
Ok, we all agree that the OP is a bit off. But you are pulling stuff out of your ass. EEOC simply means that the employer is covered by applicable laws. The only thing required to be covered by EEOC regulations is that you have 15+ employees.
So now you cannot discriminate based upon protected classes such as race, religion or gender. That's all. Nothing is said about applicants having to meet every single job requirement. This is simply some fantasy you have cooked up.
Let's stop providing people with bad information.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
