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I think the assertion that having an untrained, first day worker is this co's full time/perm strategy is pretty bizarre. I think a company would have to be nuts to trust the work coming from people that have not yet been assessed in the way of ability/skill, with no references checked, or any kind of measurable put in place (say other seasoned employees checking their work). Yet, a number of people come to the conclusion that this is indeed the case. I cannot wrap my head around it no matter how much I consider it.
No, that is not the case at all.
Several posters have commented that the OP is being used. As are the others who will be coming in behind her(reason "CEO" won't let her come in on Tuesday instead of Monday).
They're not going to have her working on detailed financial reports, more like "this is how you answer the phone".
You can have someone come in for a couple of hours to see if they fit in the office(sounds like a very small company) without making it an 8 hour day. This guy won't even talk about salary until the end of the day. Or show any flexibility on day the OP can come in.
Several posters have commented that the OP is being used. As are the others who will be coming in behind her(reason "CEO" won't let her come in on Tuesday instead of Monday).
They're not going to have her working on detailed financial reports, more like "this is how you answer the phone".
You can have someone come in for a couple of hours to see if they fit in the office(sounds like a very small company) without making it an 8 hour day. This guy won't even talk about salary until the end of the day. Or show any flexibility on day the OP can come in.
Even answering the phones seems suspect. She's not going to know who anyone is to transfer calls or how to schedule appointments if she's not trained on whatever calendar software they use.
Whether it's an efficient method to determine a good fit doesn't really matter. That's just opinion. You may be right and he wrong, but it makes no difference to the charge of her being used for productive work.
I still don't see the problem of him not letting her come in on Tuesday. That's his prerogative and hers to turn it down.
That makes no sense. If you are doing unpaid work, it's volunteer work. You don't report that. You only report work that you get paid for.
Otherwise, I'd get in trouble for the landscaping help I gave my dad.
See pages 16 and 17 of the NYS DOL Unemployment Insurance Claimant's Handbook (dated January 2014) for "What is considered work?" and "What if I do volunteer work?":
Doing unpaid work is NOT automatically considered "volunteer work" by the NYS DOL and exempt from being claimed as a "day of work" on your weekly claim.
As for the "landscaping help you gave your dad" are you:
1. Located in New York?
And did you:
2. Report doing it while collecting unemployment insurance to the Department of Labor?
In reality though, what incentive is there for any employee to do that?
If the employer isn't paying you, it would never be reported anywhere.
So why would the employee report helping someone do work for no pay?
Because it's the law in NYS that you have to report doing it? (See my post above.)
I think the NYS law on this is pretty draconian and other states are more fair.
However, as a practical matter, I agree with you and I bet most people do not report it because they will lose money on their unemployment claim for the week.
I wonder what kind of work environment there is at this place. If the boss treats a potential new hire like this, how will he treat you overall? Seems like a red flag to me but if you are desperate, I guess you try it. Can't he even give minimum wage for day, instead of no money at all? Seems disrespectful to me.
Interesting Tidbit from the NYS Unemployment Handbook ...
... and on the surface, it seems to back up the people on here that say working one day for free is okay (at least in New York State).
If you go to the link I posted in post 303 and go to page 16, you will see this under the heading "Examples of Work You Must Report":
A "working interview," where a prospective employer asks you to work -- with or without pay -- in order to demonstrate that you can do the job.
It doesn't specify how long working interviews can last, but if you look above under "What is considered work?" it says:
Every day of work that you perform, even if it was an hour or less.
EDITED TO ADD:
However, just because the NYS Dept. of Labor states that there are employers who ask for unpaid work on a trial basis, actually does not mean that it is legal or they approve of it. It could be that they are looking for it to be reported, so they can address it with employers who do that.
Note that the new handbook also addresses "independent contractors" on page 33 of the handbook and encourages everybody to file for Unemployment, no matter if they are "independent contractors" or "off the books" workers. It states, "It is against the law for any employer to force you to give up your rights to file for Unemployment Insurance Benefits. No employer should tell you that you cannot claim benefits. Everyone has a right to file a claim. The Department of Labor alone will decide if you are eligible for benefits. It does not matter whether your employer considered you an independent contractor ..." and then they go on to explain employer fraud regarding independent contractors.
So, I am editing my post and just because NYS wants you to report unpaid trial work to them DOES NOT mean that it is legal or they approve of it.
Last edited by I_Love_LI_but; 07-20-2014 at 12:48 PM..
In reality though, what incentive is there for any employee to do that?
If the employer isn't paying you, it would never be reported anywhere.
New York and California has this question on their unemployment forms and I always wondered why.
After reading this thread and seeing the sheisty replies, I no longer do. The states obviously know of employers who will try to play slick with the "work for free to see how you fit in" jazz to not only get over wage and tax laws, but paying into the mandatory unemployment insurance program as well.
Hmmm, I will call the state unemployment office, in addition to the department of labor, and both fed and state tax agencies as well to make SURE they are aware of these shady practices.
Yes, the unemployed person might not put down they worked for free, because it's not like the company would tell the state unemployment office and they could still collect UI for that day. But...if the unemployed person was HONEST in what happened, then that employer would have to answer some questions to WHY they are skirting the labor laws of the state.
Scam artists like these need to be exposed EVERYWHERE, even on the internet and messageboards like this one.
Quote:
So why would the employee report helping someone do work for no pay?
Because they were NEVER an "employee". They owe the con artist employer NOTHING.
For example, say you are at an airport and the plane is delayed and you strike up a conversation with a person next to you and you have an extended conversation with them and think their overall attitude is stellar and offer them a job based on that.
Did the person get paid for the 2 hours they spent talking? No. Does that mean that job offer should be illegal?
Even answering the phones seems suspect. She's not going to know who anyone is to transfer calls or how to schedule appointments if she's not trained on whatever calendar software they use.
Whether it's an efficient method to determine a good fit doesn't really matter. That's just opinion. You may be right and he wrong, but it makes no difference to the charge of her being used for productive work.
I still don't see the problem of him not letting her come in on Tuesday. That's his prerogative and hers to turn it down.
Huh?
What do you think a temp does? Walks into an office and starts working. They answer phones, transfer calls(you know with a list of names/ phones numbers), and get quickly shown what they will be doing.
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Interesting Tidbit from the NYS Unemployment Handbook ...
