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Thanks for clarifying, Jess. I remember people pointing out to you that none of those are disabilities, so I thought on the application 'disabilities' was referenced, although I could be wrong.
I suspect that a 'disability' has become defined as any condition that will cause the company's insurance premiums to skyrocket.
Last edited by Juliette La Bretonne; 08-13-2014 at 06:40 AM..
No, it is not the same thing. And while you have "heard" about this, I never have heard about this, as the field would have to be designed to accept numerous formats of licenses there are in the US.
I "heard" (OK, "read") it in a discussion right here on CD, though it was a long time ago and I can't find it now. The poster was someone who was frustrated with being asked about this on online job applications; I can't remember what he/she tried to put in the box ("N/A" or "None" or "0", maybe), but I recall the application not going through.
In this person's case I think s/he just didn't happen to have a license, which got me to wondering how it could be legal to require this question of people who cannot legally obtain licenses, and who will never be able to fill in that field. I've never had to apply for a job in the online-aplication era so I've never faced this problem. But if an employer is requiring applicants to show possession of something that people with certain disabilities can never possess, that's de facto discrimination against those people.
If I had remained in the US the kids and I would be barely surviving on benefits.
Instead I'm a happy citizen of both the UK and France, having renounced my US citizenship, along with my children.
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I hope you meant that you and your children renounced your U.S. citizenship, and not that you renounced your citizenship and your children.
It's disturbing that healthcare has become what it is, and disgusting that we have money to go stick our nose in everyone's business across the world (especially if there's oil there) and we cannot figure out how to care for tax-paying citizens in need. We've gotten so far off base with all that we do, that we're almost unrecognizable as the country we once were.
I'm glad you found a way to do what's best for you and your kids and sorry you had to go through it in the first place.
I hope you meant that you and your children renounced your U.S. citizenship, and not that you renounced your citizenship and your children.
It's disturbing that healthcare has become what it is, and disgusting that we have money to go stick our nose in everyone's business across the world (especially if there's oil there) and we cannot figure out how to care for tax-paying citizens in need. We've gotten so far off base with all that we do, that we're almost unrecognizable as the country we once were.
I'm glad you found a way to do what's best for you and your kids and sorry you had to go through it in the first place.
That didn't read right... did it?
That said, there are times when I'd happily sell the lot of them for a penny a pound. (You wouldn't be interested in a set of ginger-haired, never sleep, bad-attitude twin girls... would you?)
The American health care system is a nightmare. I was fortunate that I could escape. I'm well aware that most people can't, and are stuck there to live in poverty, surrounded by contempt.
That said, there are times when I'd happily sell the lot of them for a penny a pound. (You wouldn't be interested in a set of ginger-haired, never sleep, bad-attitude twin girls... would you?)
The American health care system is a nightmare. I was fortunate that I could escape. I'm well aware that most people can't, and are stuck there to live in poverty, surrounded by contempt.
As tempting as that sounds, I must decline. Even though I had two non-ginger boys who slept well and had great attitudes, I still had days where I was tempted to give them away, but then realized they would only return, so didn't bother. Just know that the curse of the mother prevails and they will have children even worse than what you've described. And if you are like all loving mothers, that thought should make you very happy and get you through the roughest of days with them!
It doesn't matter what would motivate you. I, too, would like to see a link to an actual case before I take your word for it, no matter how many "snips of verbiage" you say you've collected. There are plenty of people here who read text and get an entirely different understanding of it than I do.
Oh, there is nothing to be interpreted in the two offending questionnaires I saw - blatantly straightforward and clear. That said, no links or snips forthcoming. How would I provide a link to something that appears on a page from a multi-page application from an applicant tracking system anyway?
I've encountered what Perryview22 wrote about four times now in my job search - all with companies that do government contracts. You are given three choices, Yes (for if you either have a disability or you had one at any point in the past and they give this big list of conditions, some of them common) No or Won't Answer. The employers will not consider the application complete until this form is filled out with an answer and explicitly state they will not allow you to apply for the job otherwise. And you better believe I'm not giving any names or links given all the rights I just signed away for background searches. All that just to friggin apply.
I'm genuinely torn what to do -
1) If I say yes, which I could arguably do given their extensive list of conditions then I give them a reason to disqualify me - ironic since I never have applied or received government disability
2) If I say no, then I'm lying and they may discover this and use it to fire me later
3) If I say won't answer, then that is basically saying "yes" but with an attitude which they can then use to disqualify me.
I came across this two days ago during my interview, it wasn't a government job but rather a science center dedicated to medical research. They asked this on the application, I didn't think anything of it but now thinking back I'm starting to see what went wrong.
The application didn't ask if I was disabled though, it just asked if I had any prior "disabilities" in the past in which I said no, but yes to the part where it asked if I was able to do the job with or without accommodation.
FWIW, I'm actually protected by the ADA and have been discriminated against, however, it's really hard to prove that it's the employer at fault. I usually let it slide mostly because I have no money for a lawsuit and because it wasn't a major discrimination, but something relatively minor. Still though, this does not bode well.
The last job interview I ever went to in the US was for a small civil engineering firm. The interviewer was one of the co-founders of the firm, an older engineer. I knew him because there aren't that many PEs running around, and we had worked together. The only work I'd ever got had been as a consultant, having never been hired as a company employee with benefits, though for years I had tried.
When I was a small child I was severely injured in a crash. The injuries were what they now call 'life changing' and I was left with badly damaged legs. But not so badly damaged that I can't get to work in the morning and do a full day's work (or more). I can walk. This is why I became an engineer. I knew that I'd always be up to the job, even if I became fully disabled.
Never mind. The nice old man -- and he was nice -- explained that he had a full printout of my medical history. He explained that there were services that offered this information for a fee. He went on to explain that if he hired me his employee insurance premiums would go sky high. Furthermore, if I left the company, the premiums would remain high even though the insurance company would no longer be insuring a company with me on the payroll, as explained in this later NY Times piece.
The engineer added that it would be the same anywhere I went, and that my health history would be available to all companies. This was in 2001.
The nice man offered to hire me as a consultant. My husband had just died, and with his death the kids and I had lost our family health insurance. As an individual I was uninsurable, due to my injuries being a 'pre-existing condition'.
It took me six weeks to find a position with a civil engineering company in Scotland, where insurance isn't an issue because we are covered by the Scottish NHS. The only issue was whether I could do the job. I packed the kids, made a huge bonfire of everything else, and we emigrated. When the CD died and the company was dissolved, I was immediately offered a much better job in England, and then France where I now live. (I'm CD now.)
If I had remained in the US the kids and I would be barely surviving on benefits.
Instead I'm a happy citizen of both the UK and France, having renounced my US citizenship, along with my children.
I'm witing this from my beach house in France. I also have a house on several acres in the poshest of the English Home Counties, and a roomy flat in Glasgow's West End. Not bad for a cripple. (Imagine the amount of taxes I pay! )
The conclusion I came to was that nothing that life throws at a person is so bad that the American system can't make worse. My engineering degrees, additional degrees in physics, and MBA were worthless in the US, the direct result of an injury when I was ten years-old.
In May of 2013 I hired an American, a tetraplegic, who had never been able to find work in the US. He runs our IT, and has worked out brilliantly.
As I was writing this my English husband looked over my shoulder, saw what I was writing, and muttered, 'The stranglehold of the medical insurers is going to kill that country'.
One of many reasons why I relocated to Australia and never looked back!! I don't have it quite as nice, but we do quite well. We live close enough to the ocean that we can visit daily if we choose. I too, had a "pre-existing" condition even though I was basically very healthy. It also made the job search tougher. Imagine I did several triathlons a year and strenuous krav maga, but was a "health risk"
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