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Ok, you're right. You clearly have a job offer. Go crash his family event so you can shove your acceptance in his face and get your job.
Salary, Benefits, Vacation Policy, responsibilities, you're saying all these things were communicated to you? From what you've said in this thread, none of that was discussed. If anything it sounds entirely like you've been reading way too much into this and you and your friend have become way too pushy about something that was never established.
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You are obviously not reading what I wrote, as that is not the way it went down at all. Again, he offered both of us the job and even said how excited he was to have us work for him. I've never even called the guy, yet you accuse me of being too pushy?
But I guess it's better than some of the others that have accused me of not being pushy enough.
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What are you hoping to get out of this? You're clearly not getting a job.
I'm not convinced that's true.
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1) Legally you have no ground to stand on
Sure I have ground to stand on. He offered me the job, then reneged. That's breach of contract right there.
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2) Morally, this guy owes you nothing, he tried to do you a favor and it's not happening. Game over.
Of course he owes me something morally. He offered me a job.
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3) You can try and ram your views down the throat of the CEO and everyone here, but no one cares. You're position is flawed. There's no obligation based on a conversation like that(none of which have been directly focused at you, you're just a 3rd party tag along to the conversation between the cousins)
Yet you refuse to acknowledge that based upon the definition of 'offer' that I provided for you, nowhere does the lack of a conversation with me preclude the owner from providing me an offer. In other words, he did in fact offer me the job.
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The suggestions have been clear, let it go and move on. You have no legal footing for demanding compensation and even if you did, you would just be burning a bridge. So again, what are you hoping for
Actually, I'd like to suggest the opposite. Considering that not one person has been able to provide a cogent factual argument as to why I have not received a legal offer, I must now conclude that I did in fact receive not only a factual offer, but a legal one as well.
So why not just call or email and ask about the job? What do you have to lose?
I've thought about it but I'd rather see him face to face. As previously mentioned, it's a lot easier to blow someone off by phone, text, or email as opposed to when they are right in front of you.
You are obviously not reading what I wrote, as that is not the way it went down at all. Again, he offered both of us the job and even said how excited he was to have us work for him. I've never even called the guy, yet you accuse me of being too pushy?
But I guess it's better than some of the others that have accused me of not being pushy enough.
I'm not convinced that's true.
Sure I have ground to stand on. He offered me the job, then reneged. That's breach of contract right there.
Of course he owes me something morally. He offered me a job.
Yet you refuse to acknowledge that based upon the definition of 'offer' that I provided for you, nowhere does the lack of a conversation with me preclude the owner from providing me an offer. In other words, he did in fact offer me the job.
Actually, I'd like to suggest the opposite. Considering that not one person has been able to provide a cogent factual argument as to why I have not received a legal offer, I must now conclude that I did in fact receive not only a factual offer, but a legal one as well.
You have not received a legal offer because dictionary.com isn't the legal definition of offer. I have told you why you don't have a legal offer. Offer and contract have very specific legal definitions that are different from common usage, and your text conversation hasn't met them, particularly in the form of "consideration".
It's not breach of contract because a contract requires acceptance, and you never got that far. You can't breach a contract without a contract. Yes, it is possible for there to be a verbal contract, but No, your case does not meet the definition of a verbal contract.
Without agreement on compensation and goods/services to be exchanged, there is no offer by legal standards. I suggest you start looking up legal definitions instead of dictionary.com definitions if you're going to continue pushing this route.
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Offer
An element required in the creation of an enforceable contract. An offer is a proposal to enter into an agreement and must express the intent of the person making the offer to form a contract, must contain the essential terms --including the price and subject matter of the contract -- and must be communicated by the person making the offer. A legally valid acceptance of the offer will create a binding contract.
"I'll get you a job." "You can come work with me." even "I'll hire you full time as a Sr. Manager"
None of those are legal offers. Even "Would you like to come work for me for $80k/year" isn't a legal offer without discussion of what the work would be. Did he tell you "I'll hire you to do X for $Y/hr" because unless he said those words to you, even the conversation you had with your friend isn't necessarily a legal offer because it wasn't provided by the person making the offer.
Unless the CEO told you what he would be hiring you to do and asked you directly if you would accept the job for a specific pay rate, you have not met the requirements of a LEGAL OFFER.
IF he did all that and you told him that yes, you would agree to those terms. Then, and only then, do you have a legal contract.
You have not received a legal offer because dictionary.com isn't the legal definition of offer. I have told you why you don't have a legal offer. Offer and contract have very specific legal definitions that are different from common usage, and your text conversation hasn't met them, particularly in the form of "consideration".
It's not breach of contract because a contract requires acceptance, and you never got that far. You can't breach a contract without a contract. Yes, it is possible for there to be a verbal contract, but No, your case does not meet the definition of a verbal contract.
Without agreement on compensation and goods/services to be exchanged, there is no offer by legal standards. I suggest you start looking up legal definitions instead of dictionary.com definitions if you're going to continue pushing this route.
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Just as I suspected. You've offered a bunch of suggestions and a bunch of opinions, but no facts or evidence that proves that your theory is true.
Please prove that 'offer' has a specific legal definition distinct from common usage.
Prove that my contract had no consideration.
Prove that my case does not meet the definition of verbal contract.
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"I'll get you a job." "You can come work with me." even "I'll hire you full time as a Sr. Manager"
None of those are legal offers. Even "Would you like to come work for me for $80k/year" isn't a legal offer without discussion of what the work would be. Did he tell you "I'll hire you to do X for $Y/hr" because unless he said those words to you, even the conversation you had with your friend isn't necessarily a legal offer because it wasn't provided by the person making the offer.
Unless the CEO told you what he would be hiring you to do and you asked if you would accept the job for a specific pay rate, you have not met the requirements of a LEGAL OFFER.
IF he did all that and you told him that yes, you would agree to those terms. Then, and only then, do you have a legal contract.
Is that exactly what happened
Other than just "because I said so" what evidence and facts do you have the prove that any of this is true?
Just as I suspected. You've offered a bunch of suggestions and a bunch of opinions, but no facts or evidence that proves that your theory is true.
Please prove that 'offer' has a specific legal definition distinct from common usage.
Prove that my contract had no consideration.
Prove that my case does not meet the definition of verbal contract.
Other than just "because I said so" what evidence and facts do you have the prove that any of this is true?
These aren't my opinions. These are the actual legal requirements for an offer. Legal means specific things and it's why no one has cared about "factual" offers, because that isn't a term with any standing in court.
When you're trying to say someone owes you something, you need to be sure they do. In this case, they don't.
Sure I have ground to stand on. He offered me the job, then reneged. That's breach of contract right there.
Fact under the law: A contract is not a contract, till it is in writing and signed by both sides.
That is why employers make their offers for employment into a written contract as an offer to the potential employee, and it is still only an offer until it is signed by the other party. The contract is subject to withdrawal or cancellation, until both sides have signed the contract. And most contracts made by the employer, will have clauses in them that the contract is not valid until the person to be hired is investigated, has a drug, test, etc., and has had a final approval.
You never have had a contract with him. All you had, was that you were in consideration for a job, and after thinking it over, probably talking to other people etc., he decided not to hire you.
You have no leg to stand on, till there is an offer made in writing and signed by both sides there is no contract between you.
He does not owe you an explanation as to why he did not hire you. Demanding an answer, is only going to guarantee that you will never be hired by his firm.
These aren't my opinions. These are the actual legal requirements for an offer. Legal means specific things and it's why no one has cared about "factual" offers, because that isn't a term with any standing in court.
When you're trying to say someone owes you something, you need to be sure they do. In this case, they don't.
That's what you are going with, huh?
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A promise that, according to its terms, is contingent upon a particular act, forbearance, or promise given in exchange for the original promise or the performance thereof; a demonstration of the willingness of a party to enter into a bargain, made in such a way that another individual is justified in understanding that his or her assent to the bargain is invited and that such assent will conclude the bargain.
This is just a convoluted way of saying exactly what occurred. Your fancy schmancy legal definition of offer from the source that you quoted is almost identical in substance to the dictionary.com definition!
"tell your friend he's got the job."
a promise- ..."he's got the job"
its terms - ..."he's got the job"
is contingent upon a particular act- (paraphrase) "have him call me next week, he has to take the course and complete it on his own dime."
in exchange for the original promise- "he's got the job"
a willingness of a party to enter into a bargain: ..."he's got the job."
made in such a way that another individual is justified in understanding that his or her assent to the bargain is invited.... "he's got the job."
such assent will conclude the bargain "he's got the job."
You've just proven unequivocally that I received not just a factual offer, but a legal one as well. Thank you, sir.
Fact under the law: A contract is not a contract, till it is in writing and signed by both sides.
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I'm sorry but that's not true. Let's take a look at the definition provided by Jeo's source-
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A promise that, according to its terms, is contingent upon a particular act, forbearance, or promise given in exchange for the original promise or the performance thereof; a demonstration of the willingness of a party to enter into a bargain, made in such a way that another individual is justified in understanding that his or her assent to the bargain is invited and that such assent will conclude the bargain.
Show me where it says that both parties have to sign it (read: it doesn't).
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That is why employers make their offers for employment into a written contract as an offer to the potential employee, and it is still only an offer until it is signed by the other party. The contract is subject to withdrawal or cancellation, until both sides have signed the contract. And most contracts made by the employer, will have clauses in them that the contract is not valid until the person to be hired is investigated, has a drug, test, etc., and has had a final approval.
You never have had a contract with him. All you had, was that you were in consideration for a job, and after thinking it over, probably talking to other people etc., he decided not to hire you.
You have no leg to stand on, till there is an offer made in writing and signed by both sides there is no contract between you.
He does not owe you an explanation as to why he did not hire you. Demanding an answer, is only going to guarantee that you will never be hired by his firm.
Nope. According to Jeo's legal definition of 'offer' I did in fact have an offer.
The owner of the company doesn't have authority to offer me a job? That's your argument? We'll have to agree to disagree about that one. It doesn't sound to me like you have a very good conception of authority.
1. Not true. My friend and I both also received a verbal offer.
2. I have met the criteria for 'offer' as posted via the dictionary.com definition of 'offer'.
You are the one trying to argue that an offer is not an offer, not me.
Okay this is my last roundy rounder on this thread.
I am a business owner, I know the actual concept of authority within a company and I can guarantee you that you do not have an offer of employment and never had an offer of employment.
A successful, responsible, business owner does NOT hire friends of a cousin over text on a cell phone and they do not give a verbal offer without an application, resume, interview, documented legal requirements, background check, drug test and whatever else they may need to legally employ you.
It does not happen no matter what you choose to believe.
So as a successful, responsible, business owner I can tell you with factual absolute authority that what you think you have you do not "factually" have.
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