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On a business level: With all of that said, I cannot honestly say that if I were a hiring manager presented with two identical candidates--one with a record and one without--that I would choose the one with the record. Hiring involves a thousand small judgments, and it makes sense that a person's ability to abide by the basic rules of society would count at least as much as the quality of the suit he wears to the interview.
And that's exactly why I say that someone who DOES have both a felony and a good job worked much harder to get where they are than someone who doesn't have the felony.
here's the thing, though.. I don't feel it's right to take away your right to make that decision. I would prefer to see more employers give leniency when it comes to a criminal conviction.. But legislating that you must is totally abhorrent to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
The tolerance for some crimes varies. If someone was addicted to drugs that's one thing they can get help. But the tolerance for violence has dropped significantly. Look how hard is it to say don't beat people up?
Besides if someone does perform crime as a adult then what is that really saying? It means you can't learn. If you can't learn then what makes you think you can work?
What? I might give some credence to that statement if you said people who have been convicted of crimes multiple times means that they can't learn. I mean, by that logic, you get caught speeding once, license gone for the rest of your life.
There's alot of people who have been convicted of something or another.. And it's getting easier and easier all the time. How hard is it to not drink and drive? But, somewhere around 1.4 million people in the US get arrested for it every year. Here in SC, it is not against the law to provide alcohol to a minor in your own home.. However, in order to get a conviction, they'll ramp it up to a felony "Contributing to delinquency" charge.. So, there's dirty pool on the law enforcement side, at times, as well.
I know someone (cousin of a cousin) who has about 4 burglary charges that they never did more than a few months of jail time for (Mainly because they couldn't get the money to bail out).. In the past year, a grand larceny conviction with a totally suspended sentence, got a job, phoned in a bomb threat, got a "Terroristic threats" charge, which was peld down to misuse of a telephone.. No time... somewhere around 15 counts of burglary for breaking into storage units.. Got 5 years (Will be out in 2) and then while in jail, got about 12 MORE counts of burglary(He got caught while in jail, didn't do the burglary from jail, obviously), several of those charges were classified as 'violent'.. They gave him 5 years to run concurrent with existing sentence.. Now THAT is someone who can't learn. But, then again, the state isn't teaching him well, either. Somewhere around the 3rd or 4th one, he should have gotten smacked pretty well with a 5 year sentence, at least, and by now, he should be looking at a very long time behind bars. BUT.. I disagree with mandatory sentences.. So, I have to tolerate the sentence that he got. Don't have to like it, but.. Have to tolerate it.
"What? I might give some credence to that statement if you said people who have been convicted of crimes multiple times means that they can't learn. I mean, by that logic, you get caught speeding once, license gone for the rest of your life."
I mean more towards violent crime past the age of adulthood. People can blame things on being a "kid" all they want before the age of 18 but if someone is stealing at age 50 come on they know better.
"Here in SC, it is not against the law to provide alcohol to a minor in your own home.. However, in order to get a conviction, they'll ramp it up to a felony "Contributing to delinquency" charge.. So, there's dirty pool on the law enforcement side, at times, as well."
Well here in Mass that falls under the social host law. A few towns might complain but it is illegal.
Can there be an argument made that people can change? Sure but it depends on the crime as even after serving the time there can be a lack of employers and possibilities. If you are a felon then having a firearm probably will not be legal and that eliminates a fair amount of security professions. If someone is a sex offender and/or arsonist even a homeless shelter might not take you in. The era of crimes being forgotten is long over. Any business that contracts with government has to pass a number of checks including this one. Even without state/federal spending the pressure is on for various checks.
I mean more towards violent crime past the age of adulthood. People can blame things on being a "kid" all they want before the age of 18 but if someone is stealing at age 50 come on they know better.
Can there be an argument made that people can change? Sure but it depends on the crime as even after serving the time there can be a lack of employers and possibilities. If you are a felon then having a firearm probably will not be legal and that eliminates a fair amount of security professions. If someone is a sex offender and/or arsonist even a homeless shelter might not take you in. The era of crimes being forgotten is long over. Any business that contracts with government has to pass a number of checks including this one. Even without state/federal spending the pressure is on for various checks.
50, I'd tend to agree.. But.. Listen.. there's lots of people, myself included in this.. That having a clean record is at least half luck. Under 25.. I mean, you do alot of things that you may not be overly proud of and/or might not do again.
Crimes shouldn't be 'forgotten'.. See your examples for reasons as to why.. And I find the checks to be valid, because, well.. If someone fills out an application and checks "No", and something turns up.. They're lying and THAT certainly should be held against them.
My point being that SIMPLY because of a conviction (outside of your above examples, and others that have been made in this topic) it shouldn't immediately disqualify someone. But, the employer is the one who would be paying them, taking any possible risk there might be of employing them.. So, I also don't feel it's right to legislate that an employer can't hold it against them.
I guess, in reality here.. I've got the rose colored glasses on in hoping that people would do the right thing. Give someone a chance if they feel that they're worth a chance. Not immediately disqualify anyone with a conviction. But, state and federal government disqualify anyone, so why should a private employer do any differently?
Mod cut. I don't wanna work with someone convicted of violent crimes, rape or drug selling. You feel so bad for these cons, why don't you open your doors to them, feed them and teach them how to behave. Yeah right, I got a feelin not one person's gonna take me up on that offer. It's easy to mitigate the risk over to someone else like an employer. But when your excon employee kills someone at work or steals it's the employer who will have to pay for all the lawsuits.
Last edited by PJSaturn; 11-13-2014 at 12:59 PM..
Reason: Inappropriate language.
The checks are fair. Your example above just solidifies that fact.. You don't want someone convicted of theft working at a bank.. Someone convicted of elder abuse to work at a nursing home.
With those situations out of the way.. Let's take a criminal conviction for something that has no bearing on anything.. Someone convicted of drug possession applying to work in software development.. Should that matter? It all depends. To me.. So long as enough time had passed, it wouldn't.. In that situation, even if it was relatively new, it probably wouldn't matter.
Or, someone convicted of bank robbery 20 years ago.. Clear record since... Would I hold it against them? No. Will others? Of course. Should they? Well.. Should they be ABLE to? Yes. There shouldn't be laws against it.. Otherwise, anyone with a criminal conviction should just have it expunged after a set amount of time. I don't agree with legislating that you can't refuse to hire a person due to past behavior.
1st of all there is an engagement where after certain time you can hide that record.
My current employer can not hire people who can't pass a criminal background check. We are so regulated that it is not possible.
Some employers worry about their insurance rates in hiring ex convicts.
Some employers don't want the reputation with their customers fro hiring ex-con.
Then you have crazies that busy with their administrative screening process to see reason.
If it helps you any, I refused a job offer for a company that does background checks recently.
[Snip.] I don't wanna work with someone convicted of violent crimes, rape or drug selling. You feel so bad for these cons, why don't you open your doors to them, feed them and teach them how to behave. Yeah right, I got a feelin not one person's gonna take me up on that offer. It's easy to mitigate the risk over to someone else like an employer. But when your excon employee kills someone at work or steals it's the employer who will have to pay for all the lawsuits.
What are you babbling about? I'm just saying they should be equally considered for a job where they have responsibilities rather than being a drain on society. I'm not going to be their daddy. What are the odds someone is going to murder a coworker? lol. I bet most employee thefts are done by people with clean records.
Back in the days of Henry Ford, in Detroit, with his soft heart, he made it a point to hire ex-convicts and the disabled. He even hired a man with no arms! To work in an assembly plant?
If he were alive today............................................. .......................................
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To work in an assembly plant?
