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I was contacted today for a job making $11k less than I currently make where I'd have to be on-call one week of every four. That's all five days of the week plus Saturday. I politely declined.
while i totally get your sentiment, if the company has much more upward mobility potential (either at that company or as a big resume name for your future), it is sometimes worth it in the long run.
not necessarily you but sometimes employees think too much in the short term. back in the day, the best tech companies got away with paying a little bit less because having a company like Google, Apple, Amazon, Xerox PARC, etc. on your resume was compensation for your future in opening doors.
I'm okay with working over 40 hours a week IF and only IF the salary is commensurate with the work. I'd work 50-60 hours a week for the right salary. I'm not going to be one of those suckers whose compensation isn't really much more than someone working at McDonald's or in retail when calculating what the equivalent hourly pay is.
I've read this forum for years out of curiosity. I've seen stories of how people who ask about work life balance or how many hours a week a job entails getting shot down. What can I do to learn from their mistakes?
I wrote a paragraph outlining some of my accomplishments to prove that I am not lazy, but I decided it won't be necessary as I don't expect to be flamed.
Is this something I can ask before an interview or even before applying? Ideally, I'd like to do research on my own on the company to get an idea, but this isn't always possible or accurate.
Basically, my salary expectations shift depending on how many hours a week the company wants.
1. Know what your field is paying at entry, experienced, and expert levels.
2. Know where you fit in the equation as entry, experienced, or expert.
3. Tell the employer what you told us, you are willing to work for the RIGHT salary.
If you go into interviews without delusions of your worth as a young professional, you will have a shot at the position. This is a two way street. You want the employer to be fair and treat you with respect for the time you are giving them, and they are going to want a good return on the investment they make in you. Talk it out like grown-ups once you determine it is a place you want to work and they have an interest in you.
Working ot to get a project done is different from being expected to work 60 hour weeks year around. Having a job requiring 60 a week vs 40 has a huge effect on a persons quality of life and how to weigh salary offers. It's just common sense to know hours.
Yes, it is different, but the op stated he /she would only be willing to work more than 40 hours a week IF the pay was at a certain level. So the difference between the two is really a moot point.
As a working mother of 3 kids, I care deeply about the hours and do try to weave the question somehow into the interview process. Here are notes from my experience:
1. Hours depend on the industry. An MBA going to work for consulting, private equity, investment banking could expect 60 hour work week with frequent travel, in fact, you will be lucky at 60 hours, it's more like 80 to 100. However, if you were to go to a plain vanilla bank, you could probably do no more than 50, in fact, I know an MBA grad, a working mom of 2 small kids who graduated from a top business school and specifically did not go back to Wall Street where she worked before the kids-she found a position which allows her to be home at 6 PM, she gets paid well but of course, she probably would have made a killing on Wall street, and the job itself is not as glamorous but she is happy. If you interview for a company in the industry which is known for long hours and you ask question about the hours, you would just look plain silly because everyone who has been around the block in the industry, knows what the expectations are.
2. A lot, however, also depends on your manager's style, if you have someone who does not give a damn about well-being of his employees, both physical and emotional, forget about having any work-life balance, even in an industry which is not known for insane hours, this person will make your job and life miserable, so observe your direct manager's behavior during the interview, do they treat you like you are beneath them simply because they feel as an employer, they have leverage, or do they treat you as a valuable resource who might be able to help them solve problems and take the team to the next level?
3. Try to schedule interviews before or after hours and observe how many people are in the office, if you come after 6 and see everyone at their desks, ask an innocent question-is it some kind of a deadline everyone is working on and if the manager tells you no, that's our normal mode, it's a red flag.
I interviewed with one company where they wanted to see me at 8 AM, my commute is long, so I tried to push back and asked for 8:30, they said no, 8 AM it is, so I took a much earlier train, and came to the place at 7:30 AM, everything was hopping already, I was like, no way, where I work, things do get busy but after 9 AM. Also, I met with a few folks there, all were men, that's also a good indicator of how many women are in the senior positions, and when things were close to getting an offer, I point-blank told the recruiter that unless he sets up a quick coffee meeting for me and the direct manager I met with twice where I could openly ask him about the hours and tell him what I am able and not able to deliver, there is no way we are moving things forward.
I don't understand why some don't want to ask the expected hours. Maybe it differs by profession.
I'm in IT. I have ALWAYS asked "What are the typical hours?" and "What is the telecommunity policy?" Some jobs require on-call time. Some have very set hours. Some are flexible - you get your 8 hours in whenever you want that day. Some jobs require 45+ hours a week, every week, some rquire that to finish a project, some require go-lives on weekends. They all vary.
I also ALWAYS ask, "What is a typical day like?"
As a hiring manager, I want people to ask those questions. There shouldn't be any surprises when they start. I want someone who is willing to follow our company's culture and policies.
while i totally get your sentiment, if the company has much more upward mobility potential (either at that company or as a big resume name for your future), it is sometimes worth it in the long run.
not necessarily you but sometimes employees think too much in the short term. back in the day, the best tech companies got away with paying a little bit less because having a company like Google, Apple, Amazon, Xerox PARC, etc. on your resume was compensation for your future in opening doors.
Yeah...this company's not a heavy hitter, it's just a plain vanilla payment processing company (there are several in DFW). Companies like that usually pay crap salaries anyway, and it isn't all that impressive on a resume.
Most database developer jobs here are at mediocre, non-tech companies. They just need people to move data around, bend it, shape it, etc.
You can ask what a typical day is like for someone in that role, and you may get the information you seek that way
But honestly, a bigger issue is that you're going into this with an attitude that isn't going to do you any favors down the line.
That is one way and a common question I have asked in interviews to get at that. Another is drive by the company parking lot in the middle of the day, then drive by it again at say 8pm and see how many cars are still there. If it's in the downtown of a major city where there won't be a parking lot or the lot is underground and gated, see how many lights are on (since at 8pm it's night in most places except in summer).
But while a lot of what people are saying here is valid, nowadays more than ever salary is "abused" by companies and not simply for "getting ahead". I don't think there's anything wrong with his attitude, people deserve a somewhat "normal" workweek and a bit of a "life", it's too bad more don't have that "attitude" (at least in the US, much of the rest of the world laughs our you-know-what off about it).
Have you tried going on Glassdoor.com and seeing what current/former employees had to say? Most times, people will talk about the work/life balance. That's one of the most talked about subjects other than compensation and benefits.
I'm pretty astonished at the negativity directed towards the OP in this thread... it seems to me that asking about the length of a typical workday and whether there are cyclical or seasonal crunch times are perfectly normal questions where the prospective employee is trying to get an image of what their life will be like with that job. I have asked questions like this in several interviews and received honest and insightful answers. I don't think it ever hurt my chances for a particular job.
That said, typical hours, typical pay and seasonal ups and downs are easy information to find about any particular field in a particular area. If you don't know these in a general sense for your field, you need to network more...
I asked this at a job interview for a salaried position. And I got hired.
QUESTION: Over the past year, how many hours do you typically work during an average week?
This question went to several peers on my team that were interviewing me. They answered honestly. In their answer I found out that they used to work more middle-of-the-night hours but recently outsourced offshore for middle-of-the-night support. This was a good thing because it meant I was less likely to be on call between 10PM and 6AM which can happen in my line of work. It could be a deciding factor in taking a job. I was in a prior job where I had to get up in middle of night at lease once or twice a week plus weekend support work.
I also asked many other questions. I was interviewing them too.
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No magical formula for salaried people
