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Why? I mean I understand the problem of bad references but if companies can fire bad employees (or frequently even good ones) on the spot then I think employees should have the same ability to fire bad employers on the spot with no notice.
OP did just that. Noone said otherwise.
This doesn't mean the action (burning bridges) didn't come with some consequence.
OP, you'll just need to keep looking for an employer who will not have that requirement (references from last two employers) or who will accept references from your volunteer work.
Not true at all. An employer can share anything that is true about the employee. Don't waste your money.
Start job hunting for a lower level position and get some traction with good references. What you have been doing isn't working, change it.
Actually you are wrong. Many states dictate that there are certain things employers cannot discuss in regards to a former employee. Opinion of an employee in many states is illegal to discuss. Most states require that you stick to facts about the employee, and performance evaluations. Sadly the right to work states in the South mainly have very little to no laws protecting employees. The problem is proving what they did or didn't say, since it is usually between two employers it would take the other employer turning them in and that doesn't happen. Most companies collude and it is rarely possible to prove it.
The companies telling prospective jobs not to hire her may in fact be in violation of their own referral processes. I think the OP should pursue this on all possible fronts. She needs to explore the cease-and-desist option. And she needs to find out what the actual protocols are about giving references at her old employers. Many businesses now have rules where all that can be done is employment verification - did or did not this person work here between these dates?
Getting into character assassination and recommendations is not in line with that at all.
How long should a person be punished for leaving a job or jobs on bad terms?
Until you develop a better track record. This is a bit of a catch-22, but let's take a moment to look at it from the employers point of view.
You left on bad terms with enough animosity that you fear your previous manager's references. You left abruptly with no notice. You did this twice over a period of 5 years, which means that each position turned bad fairly quickly.
The common thread here is you. I realize that bad employers exist; I have worked for one and left abruptly after 2.5 years and my manager trashed me in my reference check. But I made really, really sure that my next job was going to be a place that I could succeed and I would not have to repeat an ugly situation.
A prospective employer is going to look at you and all sorts of warning flags go up. You are unable to offer anything really solid to counter this. You need to address this head on. Since you are talking to somebody now, tell them the situation. Give them your side of the story so that they have some context for when they do make that reference check. Then hope for the best.
If that doesn't work, follow another posters advice and drop back a level or three with your career aspirations.
I know that isn't encouraging. I hope that other posters may learn how important it is to build a solid career history. It is incredibly valuable.
I don't have anyone at those jobs. It's seems like employers don't care about the references that you list. They'll call the former employers anyway. Of course I list people that like me and would say good things about me as references. I know that I've been blackballed because thankfully potential employers and HR reps have told me some of the horrible things that have been said about me. Most of it is exaggerated or false but I don't know want to do if they ignore the references I provide and contact people via LinkedIn and fish around and find my old managers without my consent. I know I should have left those employers in a more graceful fashion but I don't feel like I should be punished for the rest of my life
Have a friend pose as a manager or there is actually a company [careerexcuse] that you can pay to do this for you. they will create a fake job at a fake (looks real) company.
As for former employers bad-mouthing you that is not typical. Most places will give titles and dates of employment as they risk a lawsuit if they badmouth you and it is not worth the legal liability exposure. You can hire Allyson Taylor or another service to call posing as a reference checker and notarize what is being said. A cease and desist letter (templates available online) can then be sent to the former manager and HR dept and that will most often cause them to stop doing it for the aforementioned reasons.
In 25 years of giving references, I refused to discuss anything about a former employee for legal reasons but rarely was I even asked anything other than . . . "would you re-hire this person?"
And if I were not asked that question, I always made sure to say . . . "I do not characterize anything about former employees or their performance except to say whether or not I would rehire them."
Not true at all. An employer can share anything that is true about the employee. Don't waste your money.
Start job hunting for a lower level position and get some traction with good references. What you have been doing isn't working, change it.
Exactly correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveswater_outdoors
Actually you are wrong. Many states dictate that there are certain things employers cannot discuss in regards to a former employee. Opinion of an employee in many states is illegal to discuss. Most states require that you stick to facts about the employee, and performance evaluations. Sadly the right to work states in the South mainly have very little to no laws protecting employees. The problem is proving what they did or didn't say, since it is usually between two employers it would take the other employer turning them in and that doesn't happen. Most companies collude and it is rarely possible to prove it.
Read veuvegirl's post again. She said that previous employers "can share anything that is true".
In this case it is sadly true that the OP left two jobs abruptly and under bad terms. That is the truth, and it is perfectly fine for companies to share that information.
If you know of any state laws that are contrary to this, please do post them. I have never seen one, and nobody has ever been able to produce one for me despite my requests.
Actually you are wrong. Many states dictate that there are certain things employers cannot discuss in regards to a former employee. Opinion of an employee in many states is illegal to discuss. Most states require that you stick to facts about the employee, and performance evaluations. Sadly the right to work states in the South mainly have very little to no laws protecting employees. The problem is proving what they did or didn't say, since it is usually between two employers it would take the other employer turning them in and that doesn't happen. Most companies collude and it is rarely possible to prove it.
What states? Name one state that forbids private citizens or businesses from giving accurate accounts of a former employee, and cite exactly what statute you are referring to. There is no such law. It is slander/libel if the statements given are malicious and false, but sharing an opinion? Legal in all 50 states. Individual companies can impose rules on how managers and HR handle reference calls, but there is a big difference between company policy and the force of the law.
OP, it's good that you now recognize that walking off the job is seriously Not Okay, let alone doing so twice. It's not going to be easy to claw your way out of this hole, but it can be done. Step One is to get a job. Not a "good" job or an industry-specific job--you've been trying that, and it isn't working. Just a job-job. There is a pretty steady need for office temps, so I would start there. Reach out to a bunch of temp agencies and take what they can find for you. A 6-12 month contract would be perfect, but you can't afford to be picky. Then, when you get an assignment be a superstar. The whole point is to have a fantastic reference waiting for you when you are done. This is Reputation Boot Camp. Then when you have a great reference lined up from your most recent manager you can try for jobs in your field again. At that point far more weight is going to be placed on what your manager from last month has to say about you than what someone from 5+ years ago might say.
Unfortunately you should forget about this current job that you want to interview for. If you give them the name of your previous manager, you won't get the job anyway so just move on.
It sounds like you've learned from your mistakes but people here having been telling people over and over again to finish your employment well (give proper notice, end up good terms as much as possible, swallow your pride, don't burn bridges, etc.) and many times people ignore that advice and say that they can't handle spending another minute at work let alone another 2 weeks and just quit anyway.
There are ramifications to decisions made, etc.
You need to get lucky and find a job where they don't bother to check your previous employment. Or you should put whatever other jobs you have been doing for the past 3 years so that those jobs look like your most recent jobs and not jobs from 3 years ago. Even if it's just volunteer work, etc., play it up on your resume with your responsibilities, etc.
It's kind of like a credit report, it takes time for this stuff to go away so it won't follow you forever...
There is a pretty steady need for office temps, so I would start there. Reach out to a bunch of temp agencies and take what they can find for you. A 6-12 month contract would be perfect, but you can't afford to be picky. Then, when you get an assignment be a superstar. The whole point is to have a fantastic reference waiting for you when you are done. This is Reputation Boot Camp. Then when you have a great reference lined up from your most recent manager you can try for jobs in your field again. At that point far more weight is going to be placed on what your manager from last month has to say about you than what someone from 5+ years ago might say.
Best of luck to you!
An added bonus is you might get hired from one of the temp jobs.
At the very least you get to try out companies without a commitment.
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