Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment > Job Search
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-09-2017, 07:29 PM
 
186 posts, read 124,426 times
Reputation: 147

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
Anyone with 1) no college degree and 2) long term unemployment (big gap) on their resume will have it hard finding a job, no matter what their age is.


Also, employers might wonder why someone has reached the age of 55 but not completed college yet.


I do not feel age discrimination is solely responsible for the situation you are in. Get your degree.
I don't think the problem is not having a degree and being unemployed. I have plenty of friends with degrees that can't find better paying jobs. They are struggling. The problem is employers being very picky and want people with really technical degrees and years experience just to make 80k a year. Combine that with the BS labor statistics. If I own a pizza place with a staff of 20 people but since 2010, 300 people have either quit or got fired, how many jobs have I created? The DOL then reports I've created 300 jobs since that's how many people I've had to hire for replacements but in reality I created 0 jobs. (Assuming I opened the pizza place in 2005.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-10-2017, 12:51 PM
 
3,739 posts, read 4,618,430 times
Reputation: 3430
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAcuraMan View Post
I don't think the problem is not having a degree and being unemployed. I have plenty of friends with degrees that can't find better paying jobs. They are struggling. The problem is employers being very picky and want people with really technical degrees and years experience just to make 80k a year.
80K a year? Heck I see ads that want a master degree and 10 years of experience with pay of only 35K.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2017, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
8,168 posts, read 8,456,672 times
Reputation: 10141
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipcam33578 View Post
Hi All,
I was laid off in April 2015 thru no fault of my own.<>
<>Lost in NC
I went thru a similar downturn. I was an ME with good CAD experience. I managed to hook up with a small tech operation and then the boss decided to move the operation down here. That business went away, and I made a connection thru that company to another, similar operation. When they tanked I tried for contract or full time but got nothing, so I eventually retired. I was 68 by that time. My wife does have a good retirement, so medical was covered.
Good luck with your job search. If you want to stick with your current skill set try to go contract labor. I still get enquiries from LinkedIn.
The only alternative for us was an online home based business that did bring in some cash for us. I won't tout it here but there are people I know personally in the Raleigh area who have a good living from this. There are no requirements of special skills, certifications, or degrees and you can increase your participation or back out altogether whenever you want.
If you search "multilevel scam" you will find sites and blogs that will help you discriminate pepper from flyspecks in the industry. Avoid any that require a big buy in to fill your garage with soap.
I'll PM the specific company info.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2017, 01:40 PM
 
3,117 posts, read 4,567,460 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipcam33578 View Post
Hi All,
I was laid off in April 2015 thru no fault of my own. The company I was working for took a 30% downturn in business and made some layoffs of which I was one of them. I'm over 55 and have worked since I was 16. I have been in the IT field for the last 20 years and have done good.
I have many IT certifications and experience but no one will give me a job. I keep hearing the same old responses which I've listed here:

1. You don't have a college degree
2. Your over qualified (for lower level positions both in IT and in other industries)
3. Your under qualified for the higher end positions
4. You've been out of work for too long (like I really wanted to be unemployed for the last 2 years)

There are a few more but I cannot recall them at this time. I do very well on interviews and am well spoken. I have experienced a few times when going on the interviews that I noticed the people in the office were young enough to be my children. At that point I knew I was done with that position.

I have many IT certs (A+, Net+, I-Net+, Sec+, MCP, MCSE, CCNA) and even with them combined with my experience I'm getting no where fast. Since being laid off in April 2015 I've gone thru all my retirement, all of my savings and am on my last leg financially. I lost my home and was forced to move in with friend out of state for now but am not sure how long that would last.

I do have some family but none of them are in a position to help me as they are my children. I fight with discouragement, frustration and loneliness everyday.

I've played by the rules my entire life and should not be in this situation. I raised three children since they were born on my own, worked 50 hours a week plus did side work as well. I just don't know what to do from here. I'm open to relocating but what do you do when you go to a new location, don't know anyone and have no money to rent a place even if your offered a job?

I cannot believe that this is America and that I'm living this horrible life.

I know there are others who have experienced what I'm going thru and was wondering what you did to survive and how did things work out.

-Lost in NC

So, I intentionally stayed off this thread for a while to see if someone with more "empathetic tact" than I chimed in with the answer, but it's become obvious that's not going to happen. I've got some cold water for you. Not being mean, it's just tough love.

First, my brain kind of locked up at the "you don't have a degree" line. Technology is one of those fields where the degree doesn't matter. As a matter of fact, the person I know with the most prestigious degree I've seen doesn't even put it on his resume. When asked about it, he says something to the effect of "nothing I learned then is technically relevant today, and anybody who cares about it isn't someone I want to work with". So right out of the gate I'm trying to figure out where you're applying to to where you'd hear that line, because it just doesn't compute.

The big thing I'm going to beat you over the head on are your "many certifications". All - and I do mean all - of your "Whatever+" certifications are useless. CompTIA certifications are not sought after at any level, and the only skills they prove are rudimentary, entry level vendor agnostic skillsets suitable for people just getting started out in the industry. Also, they used to be lifetime certs, so it's entirely possible when you took them, you were tested on technology no longer in play. So your first 4 certs are wasted space right out of the gate. Your MCP and MCSE show redundancy and attempting to pad your cert list. Every MCSE is an MCP. The only requirement to be an MCP is pass any one of a billion Microsoft certifications, the MCSE is just the logical byproduct of passing a series of 3-4 MCP qualifying exams. If I'm scanning your resume, I now see 4 entry level certifications and your attempt to turn your MCSE into 2. I'm also wondering why it is you only have an MCSE, since that's a deprecated systems cert that was long since replaced by the MCITP. I'm going to assume your MCSE is the old style where the S stood for Systems, not Solutions. There is also the fact that the Microsoft certs are the easiest ones out there to brain-dump. Oh, and 70% of the enterprise server space belongs to Linux. So now I've taken out 5-6 of your certs, depending on how you want to compress the MCP. Which means that out of your "many certifications", the only interesting one you have is the CCNA. Is it current? If not, then it's of no use, either. Even if it is, the CCNA is a junior level network engineering certification appropriate for people in their 20's, not in their 50's. With 20+ years of experience, I would expect you to at least have a CCNP. MAYBE I'll call you with just a CCNA, but only if I have bad luck and don't find anybody else that has something else.

One of the big challenges older technology candidates have is shaking the impression that they did not keep current with technology and are too caught up in outmoded methods of doing things. Nothing you've listed, if I'm just reading you on a piece of paper, dissuades me from that belief. On the contrary, what you've written reinforces the stereotype to me, because I don't see progression. Your history looks like you found a pretty easy, low-maintenance early career role and rode it out for 30 years. Not only that, it doesn't look like you ever made the path choice between systems and networking. You remained a generalist, and the era of the generalist ended almost 10 years ago. These days, companies want specialists.

In short, you need to alter the perception others have of you if you wish to advance.

Modernize your skills, pick up certifications that are actually in demand, and re-tool your resume so that it doesn't make you look so dated. At your age and, given your limited foundational expertise on paper, I would suggest finding one product line that you can go deep on and trying to angle to become an SE to dig yourself out. Or else maybe pen testing. It's not hard to get into that, and there's a skills gap that makes entry for those who aren't terribly good at it to get a foot in the door. This likely also includes purging work history from your resume that is so old as to no longer be of interest. As to your work history gap, start a "consulting company" and work there, even if you're "working" there, if you get my meaning.

You say you're in NC, but don't specifically state where. I can tell you beyond a doubt that RTP is absolutely booming with tech jobs right now. And while I have no doubt that you've run up against bouts of ageism thus far, your continued lack of success has a lot to do with what's staring you in the mirror. Luckily for you, that's eminently fixable. And no, unless your goal is to leave technology, a degree is not part of that roadmap.

Good luck.

Last edited by Xanathos; 08-10-2017 at 01:48 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2017, 02:57 PM
 
2,156 posts, read 3,316,410 times
Reputation: 2837
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
Anyone with 1) no college degree and 2) long term unemployment (big gap) on their resume will have it hard finding a job, no matter what their age is.


Also, employers might wonder why someone has reached the age of 55 but not completed college yet.


I do not feel age discrimination is solely responsible for the situation you are in. Get your degree.
It depends on the degree. A lot of people who have college degree but those degrees are not in demand.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2017, 03:25 PM
 
186 posts, read 124,426 times
Reputation: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulone View Post
80K a year? Heck I see ads that want a master degree and 10 years of experience with pay of only 35K.
Now that's a little excessive lol. I haven't come across something like that but I'm sure it does occur, probably rare though. What's common especially on the east coast is a lot of entry level 40k a year jobs that want people with bachelors degrees and several years experience such as myself. 40k is really not enough to live in especially on the east coast. Now that might work out in Omaha Nebraska for someone with no student loans and no debt and who has a fresh start but even at that rate you're just making enough to get by. Then they want you to work 55-60 hour workload weeks while only paying you for 40 hours. Then when it comes time for raises they offer meager 1-2% increases.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2017, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Metro NYC
696 posts, read 902,183 times
Reputation: 755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos View Post
So, I intentionally stayed off this thread for a while to see if someone with more "empathetic tact" than I chimed in with the answer, but it's become obvious that's not going to happen. I've got some cold water for you. Not being mean, it's just tough love.

First, my brain kind of locked up at the "you don't have a degree" line. Technology is one of those fields where the degree doesn't matter. As a matter of fact, the person I know with the most prestigious degree I've seen doesn't even put it on his resume. When asked about it, he says something to the effect of "nothing I learned then is technically relevant today, and anybody who cares about it isn't someone I want to work with". So right out of the gate I'm trying to figure out where you're applying to to where you'd hear that line, because it just doesn't compute.

For the OPs target companies, I think it does. It doesn't matter only if you are some prodigy who won numerous Kaggle competitions and the like.


The big thing I'm going to beat you over the head on are your "many certifications". All - and I do mean all - of your "Whatever+" certifications are useless. CompTIA certifications are not sought after at any level, and the only skills they prove are rudimentary, entry level vendor agnostic skillsets suitable for people just getting started out in the industry. Also, they used to be lifetime certs, so it's entirely possible when you took them, you were tested on technology no longer in play. So your first 4 certs are wasted space right out of the gate. Your MCP and MCSE show redundancy and attempting to pad your cert list. Every MCSE is an MCP. The only requirement to be an MCP is pass any one of a billion Microsoft certifications, the MCSE is just the logical byproduct of passing a series of 3-4 MCP qualifying exams. If I'm scanning your resume, I now see 4 entry level certifications and your attempt to turn your MCSE into 2. I'm also wondering why it is you only have an MCSE, since that's a deprecated systems cert that was long since replaced by the MCITP. I'm going to assume your MCSE is the old style where the S stood for Systems, not Solutions. There is also the fact that the Microsoft certs are the easiest ones out there to brain-dump. Oh, and 70% of the enterprise server space belongs to Linux. So now I've taken out 5-6 of your certs, depending on how you want to compress the MCP. Which means that out of your "many certifications", the only interesting one you have is the CCNA. Is it current? If not, then it's of no use, either. Even if it is, the CCNA is a junior level network engineering certification appropriate for people in their 20's, not in their 50's. With 20+ years of experience, I would expect you to at least have a CCNP. MAYBE I'll call you with just a CCNA, but only if I have bad luck and don't find anybody else that has something else.

Agreed.

One of the big challenges older technology candidates have is shaking the impression that they did not keep current with technology and are too caught up in outmoded methods of doing things. Nothing you've listed, if I'm just reading you on a piece of paper, dissuades me from that belief. On the contrary, what you've written reinforces the stereotype to me, because I don't see progression. Your history looks like you found a pretty easy, low-maintenance early career role and rode it out for 30 years. Not only that, it doesn't look like you ever made the path choice between systems and networking. You remained a generalist, and the era of the generalist ended almost 10 years ago. These days, companies want specialists.

OK but the "specialists" are required to have a list of disparate skills that seem to be mash ups of multiple positions because the one resource-if one is ever hired-is expected to fulfill multiple often non-intersecting roles.

In short, you need to alter the perception others have of you if you wish to advance.

Modernize your skills, pick up certifications that are actually in demand, and re-tool your resume so that it doesn't make you look so dated. At your age and, given your limited foundational expertise on paper, I would suggest finding one product line that you can go deep on and trying to angle to become an SE to dig yourself out. Or else maybe pen testing. It's not hard to get into that, and there's a skills gap that makes entry for those who aren't terribly good at it to get a foot in the door. This likely also includes purging work history from your resume that is so old as to no longer be of interest. As to your work history gap, start a "consulting company" and work there, even if you're "working" there, if you get my meaning.

I am actually working for a "consulting company" on product development while working contract gigs concurrently and I can tell you that I have been called out on this multiple times by recruiters with the insinuation that I am covering "gaps" in my background; I do of course hang up on these clowns and move on but this is a scenario that OP will need to anticipate.

You say you're in NC, but don't specifically state where. I can tell you beyond a doubt that RTP is absolutely booming with tech jobs right now. And while I have no doubt that you've run up against bouts of ageism thus far, your continued lack of success has a lot to do with what's staring you in the mirror. Luckily for you, that's eminently fixable. And no, unless your goal is to leave technology, a degree is not part of that roadmap.

True enough the end clients-and make no mistake that contracting is the only option for OP at this point-will not care about age as long as the applicant packs the requisite gear. The staffing agencies WILL care though because as they are required to offer health insurance, they will incur the costs of an older worker even if the contractor is paying the full cost of the group rate, the company will have to eat the age banded premium penalty.

Good luck.
xxx
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2017, 09:51 AM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,092 posts, read 80,136,113 times
Reputation: 56901
"1. You don't have a college degree
2. Your over qualified (for lower level positions both in IT and in other industries)
3. Your under qualified for the higher end positions
4. You've been out of work for too long (like I really wanted to be unemployed for the last 2 years)"


I'm surprised that employers would give you this kind of feedback. We will just say "we decided to go with someone else."
Our IT department seems to be pretty stable, with most people in their 40s-60s and not retiring any time soon. Overall we have about 2,000 employees, and the average age is 50. Recent retirees that I know well were over 70 when they left, and we have hired a lot of people in the 40-600 age group, especially in management. The people I manage range in age from 23-60, the oldest hired when 54. Because we are in a specialized industry the experience is more important than degrees,. Even so, we get people with degrees and even advanced degrees even when none is required. Going back to get a degree now is not really cost-effective. When I got this job at age 57 I spent a lot of time looking for a field where the combination of experience and skills from my first two careers would be valued. It turned out very well when there happened to be an opening for a position that matched my resume. It's been my experience that public agencies are much less likely to practice age discrimination, and they all have IT departments.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2017, 10:23 AM
 
1,913 posts, read 2,253,240 times
Reputation: 1758
great information here
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2017, 04:31 PM
 
34 posts, read 22,209 times
Reputation: 54
Relocate, retrain ro do something else for a while and keep looking. Age discrimination is a b*tch. I know. Everyone tells me to network. I'm actually in a different field now but familiar w/It and it's woes. You could also ask agencies or some newer online sites I know of to look for a specific position and see what locations they come up with.

Main thing is to always be thinking of what you desire. I know it sounds new-agey but your mind is a magnet and what you dwell on attracts "like".

Good luck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment > Job Search

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top