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my wifes supervisor told her it was illegal to use someone she works with as a reference, wouldn't telling her that be illegal?
Your wife's supervisor is a Dumb@ss. There is nothing illegal about using anyone as a reference. It may be against company policy to give a reference for a coworker at the company but company policies are not laws.
In my scenario, I was contacted by a recruiter about a job that is a perfect fit for me. The recruiter conducted a phone interview and then a face-to-face interview with me. They then submitted my resume to the hiring company who agreed that I was an excellent fit.
I then passed a face-to-face interview with the hiring company, and they asked for a second more intensive interview before the end of the same day. The hiring company then sent me a link to enter 5 references, 3 of which had to be former managers. The hiring company then sent emails to each reference containing a link to a survey form for providing input on my skills etc. Their policy is that as soon as 3 of the 5 references respond, they create an aggregate report and send this to the hiring manager.
4 of my 5 references have already responded, so as far as the hiring company is concerned the reference checking process is complete. But now the recruiter is asking for a copy of all the references I submitted to the hiring company. This is obviously not to filter me before submitting me to their customers, at least not this one.
I don't want my references being contacted unless it is for a legitimate active job application for which I have submitted an application. To be contacted again at this point would be a plain nuisance and may lead them to withdraw their agreement to be a reference for me. These are my best 5 references and I don't want to have to go find 5 more just because the best 5 were unnecessarily bothered by a recruiter. I also don't want to offend the recruiter.
I am a recruiter and this really is situational. Yes can references be checked after the interview process. But 99% of my clients ask that I do them before submitted. I have to submitted the reference quotes with the resume. Some clients will check them again and some don't waste the time to do it again.
My clients see this as an important step because it would waste their time going through interviews with some one to then find out through reference checks that they were a nightmare employee or they were fired because they did something unethical (ie. from example above stole money).
I am not saying that recruiters can be sneeky but if you work witht he right ones and ask the right questions you will be able to seperate the good from the bad.
Leads are different for references, can you get leads from references? yes! but it should be done right. leads are not references and any recruiter that calls a lead not given as a reference and mentions a candidates name with out permission is not doing it right.
Here's the problem though, what if anything, will you find bad on a reference check?
If a person chooses wisely, then you're going to get good feedback - or at the very least, "Yeah he/she may have a slight issue with X, but he/she has worked through it"
If someone gave me a bad reference, I would have to question the reference as opposed to the candidate.
I heard recruiters ask for your previous managers contact information for the sole purpose of contacting them to see if they need help filling your position or any positions in the company. They basically are looking for your contacts at businesses to reach out to and solicited their services. Remember they work on commission.
I work for a major international bank, and before I could have a face-to-face interview, I had to submit FIVE references AND a full background check (FBI and DHS).
I had no issue doing it. Mostly, because, you know, I wanted to get the job.
I work for a major international bank, and before I could have a face-to-face interview, I had to submit FIVE references AND a full background check (FBI and DHS).
I had no issue doing it. Mostly, because, you know, I wanted to get the job.
And it is at a major international bank. I would understand that type of scrutiny at a job like that, even for a bank teller at your local credit union.
Obviously, the other examples are government clearances, other people handling large amounts of money and maybe C-Level execs.
For your rank and file job? Sometimes it's a bit much.
In my scenario, I was contacted by a recruiter about a job that is a perfect fit for me. The recruiter conducted a phone interview and then a face-to-face interview with me. They then submitted my resume to the hiring company who agreed that I was an excellent fit.
I then passed a face-to-face interview with the hiring company, and they asked for a second more intensive interview before the end of the same day. The hiring company then sent me a link to enter 5 references, 3 of which had to be former managers. The hiring company then sent emails to each reference containing a link to a survey form for providing input on my skills etc. Their policy is that as soon as 3 of the 5 references respond, they create an aggregate report and send this to the hiring manager.
4 of my 5 references have already responded, so as far as the hiring company is concerned the reference checking process is complete. But now the recruiter is asking for a copy of all the references I submitted to the hiring company. This is obviously not to filter me before submitting me to their customers, at least not this one.
I don't want my references being contacted unless it is for a legitimate active job application for which I have submitted an application. To be contacted again at this point would be a plain nuisance and may lead them to withdraw their agreement to be a reference for me. These are my best 5 references and I don't want to have to go find 5 more just because the best 5 were unnecessarily bothered by a recruiter. I also don't want to offend the recruiter.
I would welcome some advice...
Ask her why she needs them and why the online info they filled out wasn't enough.
You're old bosses are busy people and can't keep answering the phone about a former employee!
That's all fine and dandy, but a piece of paper doesn't really say anything about you as an employee. It says that you're a P.E. and that's great, but often times employers require a P.E. as a condition of employment, so that hardly suffices as a reference. It says nothing about you as an employee -- i.e. do you show up on time, how good are you at client interfacing, how's your attitude, do you stay late when asked, etc.
It's a little different with engineering, and some engineering companies simply need a body -- someone that can design things, regardless of anything else. But often times, they want an employee who will fit the team, not just a body for the open cube. And your P.E. doesn't mean anything in that regard.
At the end of the day, your former boss's thoughts on you mean a WHOLE lot more than your project list.
Riddle me this, if you suspect a candidate may be embellishing his resume and other certifications, what makes you think that his references won't be dishonest either? It's not that hard to have a fake reference set up. A boss or former manager who had no control in seeing that candidate go can be doing him a favor and pump his worth too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkkt6
Again, it's not BS. My company guarantees to all of our clients that we check references on every candidate, along with interview them ourselves, prior to our client even seeing the resume. It's part of the reason why companies pay us tens of thousands of dollars to find people for them.
Care to share the name of your company then? I really would like to work with recruiters with integrity and results. Your company seems like one of them (very rare indeed). The ones I've worked with, and talking with many of my colleagues and acquaintances, theirs are most certainly NOT. Note that I'm not saying your company is a crock. I'm concerned with the ones I've tried to work with or those passed by word of mouth.
You are so very wrong about this. The reason we ask is so we don't risk our reputations and waste our clients' time with resumes they have already seen. I always ask, and I've still been burned on this. It makes me AND the candidate look bad. It's a questions ANY quality recruiter asks.
I've had my references call me, congratulating me on my progress saying they put in a good word for me. I'm confused because I don't even know if ill get an interview (I didn't), and they were too. One of them told me the recruiter did try to fish for job leads. I know first hand that some of them aren't good people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkkt6
Again, it's not BS. My company guarantees to all of our clients that we check references on every candidate, along with interview them ourselves, prior to our client even seeing the resume. It's part of the reason why companies pay us tens of thousands of dollars to find people for them.
If you can't understand this, then it's best to just not waste anyone's time and avoid working with recruiters altogether.
If you don't mind, please share what company you're with. I don't doubt you when you say recruiters do good work. However, this sounds like it's only for either executive level positions, or you've witnessed the less than 1% of recruiters that actually do their jobs. As mentioned above, I've dealt with too many that wasted my time.
I have one IT friend who uses a recruiter, and has managed to get him some interviews (although he ended up making his own way). Many more I've talked to say they wasted their times, and managed to be much more efficient utilizing their own networks for midlevel to sr level jobs that pay $50K to $100K
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkkt6
They will when they can't fill that position on their own.
And sending your resume directly to the company puts your resume in a general inbox next to 100's of others applicants for numerous positions. Working with a recruiter allows you to have your resume sent to the hiring manager for that specific position. (Good) recruiters will get you some sort of feedback with 24-48 hours, as opposed to waiting weeks or months to hear something from an HR person.
Again, too many of the recruits I've had the "pleasure" of dealing with look like they're hired fresh out of college. If you can post some you know are actually helpful, it'd go a long way towards me and others who've gotten frustrated with them and don't realy work with them.
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References to recruiters?
