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Old 12-03-2014, 11:01 PM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
5,311 posts, read 3,802,047 times
Reputation: 5392

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Quote:
Originally Posted by djkkt6 View Post
^^^

I've never understood why some companies submit resumes of candidates without the candidate knowing about it. What happens when the company wants to interview that candidate, and the staffing firm can't get ahold of them? Or the person doesn't want to interview with that company? They look like complete idiots. I'm sure they lie and say "oh he just took a job, sorry we're a day late" or something like that.
Like asking why a thief steals.... some of them are NOT honest.
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Old 12-03-2014, 11:10 PM
 
285 posts, read 479,182 times
Reputation: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_critic View Post
I was not happy about this because my professional references were busy executives who do not have time to talk to a half dozen people calling to check up on me before they even sent me to an interview at a company I may not even be interested in.
This. My references don't have time to be taking calls from my random prospective employers. I feel it's disrespectful to their time to be submitting them as a reference if I am not being seriously considered for a role. Most people apply for a few jobs at a time when they are job hunting (or at least I do), so I don't want 3-4 random companies calling and potentially annoying them to the point where they no longer want to serve as my reference.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:59 AM
 
3 posts, read 5,383 times
Reputation: 11
This un-ethical practice must be resisted.

You can check with any of the temp agencies, and they are fully able to verify my employment, as well as any cases of theft. The temp agencies can tell you yes or no whether there were any complaints, and whether I left on good terms.

Why don't you do this? They have procedures for you to do this. The software corporation where I have worked through various agencies, has a policy, no references other than to verify employment. You are asking these managers to go against their company policy and it is manipulation because yes that manager wants to help me, and you are not even granting me an interview.

There are agencies out there which have taken references from me one year, not supposedly able to reach any of them, so can I please have more references, no interview, not even a job description, and then the next year they call me back!

Suckers out there, knuckling under to this, planted articles saying it's normal to behave this way.

I could understand if you didn't have temp agencies with streamlined procedures for verifying employment, just go to their website, and you aren't interested in doing that bit of detective work. You don't even screen me, you don't even show me a job description, in fact the latest example of this involved a job I clearly was not even a good fit for, as described over the phone in a 30 minute conversation without seeing a written job description and then finally you tell me you have an un-ethical policy of asking the managers to violate the company policy!

I wish to condemn this un-ethical practice in the most hateful terms possible.
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Old 07-08-2015, 09:08 AM
 
3 posts, read 5,383 times
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If you are a laid back type of person who feels comfortable giving references before the client ever sees your resume then here are the firms I know of which are still in business which you may have special success with:
Bluehawk, Aerotek, Oxford Group, Teksystems
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Old 07-08-2015, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Planet Telex
5,556 posts, read 3,182,979 times
Reputation: 5357
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoIntervewNoReference View Post
If you are a laid back type of person who feels comfortable giving references before the client ever sees your resume then here are the firms I know of which are still in business which you may have special success with:
Bluehawk, Aerotek, Oxford Group, Teksystems
I wish I would have known this sooner! When I graduated I applied for a job which was through Aerotek. I had to bring three references with me to the interview. Looking back, I wish I never brought my references. The job I was interviewing for didn't exist -- they said the company engaged in a "hiring freeze" and that they would start hiring again in 3-4 weeks. I checked back with Aerotek later on and they kept saying the same thing. No job, nada.

Fishing for leads, that is all.
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Old 07-08-2015, 09:31 AM
 
135 posts, read 149,823 times
Reputation: 217
I would also like to jump in and confirm that asking for references from the first contact is a fishing expedition. I have served as a reference for many former employees and have been contacted many times by recruiters and temp agencies for a "reference". They ask the required questions, would I hire this person again, what were their duties, ect. However, the majority of time is spent talking up their company, asking if my company has any openings, and even if I am personally in the market.

I am always sure to report back to the employee to let them know this recruiter is not looking out for their best interest.
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Old 07-08-2015, 10:01 AM
 
3 posts, read 5,383 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmw51882 View Post
I would also like to jump in and confirm that asking for references from the first contact is a fishing expedition. ....
I understand your point. However, I have not made that accusation.

To me, it does not matter what is the motivation for this un-ethical practice.

I have been working for temp agencies for nearly 20 years. They have streamlined procedures for you to verify my employment, they can tell you whether there were any complaints, whether I left on good terms, and whether there were any cases of theft. So in response to claims made by some on this forum that temp agencies do not add value, hey, they are trying to add value by: verifying employment! So why don't you avail yourself of this added value?

Go up on the websites of the many, many, temp agencies I have worked with which were good agencies, and they have right on their web page, a streamlined procedure or a phone number to call for this very type of verification. In some cases, a programmer even wrote a cool tool for this verification, hoping the world would use it.

The client company in question which I have worked for directly and as a temp for over 15 years, also, has a policy against giving references, "just refer them to HR which will verify employment". People will take a risk for you because they respect you or because you were laid off out of their control, laid off due to contract length limits, laid off due to fiscal year end budgetary changes, and I do not ask anyone to take that risk for me. But I know people who tell me they don't mind taking that risk anyway. So when I give you that person's information, hey, respect what that is. If you are not interested enough in me to interview me then what are you doing.

#1. Verify these things through the temp agencies, that is what they are for.

#2. It is un-ethical to manipulate employees of a company to violate their company policy by telling them that by violating their company policy they will be helping someone they respect.

Last edited by NoIntervewNoReference; 07-08-2015 at 10:36 AM..
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:42 PM
 
39 posts, read 26,888 times
Reputation: 42
Reading everyone’s comments is interesting. The reference issue is how recruiters themselves differentiate from corporate HR. As mentioned in other comments, corporate HR needs more value than they can produce themselves, so it is easy to see how corporate HR would demand reference checking on recruiting agencies. However, that doesn’t mean recruiters don’t use reference checking as a sales technique to increase job requests, of course they do.

I know of one recruiting agency Apple One in New Jersey requires a reference check and background check before you are eligible to be presented to any of their clients. This is a great sales pitch technique to win new business from a corporate HR department, one that Apple One uses to gain customers. They even request the applicant pay for the background checks.


The real issue of recruiters is they are not what they appear to be. I did a study of over 300 recruiters from CyberCoders and found only 4.39% had industry experience, which means they worked in the industry they are recruiting. These people have a peer relationship with the hiring manager whereas the other recruiters have a vendor one.


That is the issue with recruiting as a whole; the industry is filled with entry level workers and has a business model that is sales oriented. In the recruiter study 69.28% of staff first job is recruiting. They have no business experience, management experience, responsibility for Profit & Loss, no skills except enthusiasm and a sales personality. Only 23.82% had more than 5 years’ experience, not many make it in the field.


The comments about recruiting agencies are attributed to the sales orientation of the industry. As mentioned most recruiters do not have a peer relationship, only a vendor one. If you want to use a recruiter and have many years of work experience then your chances of finding one who is qualified to present your skill sets is very low. However, if you find one that has industry experience they understand quickly if you can not only talk the talk but can walk the walk and know how to present you to the hiring manager. They have a peer relationship.


Recruiters were called headhunters long ago because it was unethical for a company to steal a competitor’s labor. They used headhunters to do the work for them. The recruiters would even re-write your resume, not lying but know how to present your credentials. Why would you need reference when you are trying to lure a competitor’s staff member?


While they are some recruiters and agencies that adhere to some standards the majority do not. They do more harm than good for the talent acquisition process. Remember the old saying “It takes one to know one”, today’s recruiting industry is populated with unskilled labor. There is a difference between 10 years’ experience and 1 year experience done for 10 years, recruiting fits the latter category.
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