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Old 03-03-2009, 09:45 AM
 
536 posts, read 1,795,075 times
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I haven't had very good luck with recruiters. Most of the time, if they ask for references, they do check them. But sometimes they will ask my references if they are interested or know of some people that are. Some will ask flat out if I know others that might be interested and try to find the names of my coworkers. My favorite is "I have worked with your general manager before. What was his name again?" I only use references from previous jobs, not those I am currently working with.

I never give out managers names.
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Old 03-03-2009, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 31,561,475 times
Reputation: 7307
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluv00 View Post
Their services save companies $$ by alleviating the burden of employing people. Benefits, training, unemployment/worker's comp insurance etc.. are all costs of employing people and when a staffing agency is doing all of that, companies save $$.
And guess who loses? THE "PERMATEMP" employee!

It used to be that temps got a bigger hourly wage than permanent employees because they have no health or life insurance benefits, no paid sick time, no vacation time, no 401(k), etc. Not anymore. Once "staffing agencies" sold more and more employers on "alleviating the burden of employing people" the staffing agencies started taking the lion's share of the hourly rate they charge the company for the temporary workers. So they are sitting there being the middleman, collecting money for issuing a paycheck and paying minimal employment taxes, while the PERSON WHO IS ACTUALLY OUT IN THE TRENCHES DOING THE WORK gets less than 1/2 the hourly rate billed, plus gets no benefits or paid time off because the staffing company is hoarding that money for themselves. To a PERMATEMP, holidays mean losing a day's pay. Staffing agencies that turn people into PERMATEMPS who serve on an hourly basis are nothing but bloodsuckers.
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Old 03-03-2009, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 31,561,475 times
Reputation: 7307
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluv00 View Post
My question is....how many companies have you applied to in the past? How many of them got back to you regardless of what the outcome was?
It sounds to me like the person whose post you are responding to is a person who represents an employer, not a job seeker. As for their comment on a lack of reading comprehension, it was unclear as to whether they meant candidates sent their way by recruiters or the recruiters themselves ... but maybe that is being cleared up for me now. OP, what did you mean?

Last edited by I_Love_LI_but; 03-03-2009 at 10:45 AM..
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Near the water
8,232 posts, read 12,626,815 times
Reputation: 3894
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluv00 View Post
My first guess is that you had a bad experience with a recruiter. For that I am sorry. Not all staffing agencies as you put are "sucking money" from their clients. If done correctly and with a consultative approach not only can staffing agencies get people working in a down economy, they can also save companies tons of money.

Are all agencies great? No. Are there companies out there just using people to get profits? Of course.........but if you do your research and you ask the right people the right questions you can have another resource with contacts in organizations that you normally would not have access too.

Staffing companies do more than just source candidates and submit to a client. Their services save companies $$ by alleviating the burden of employing people. Benefits, training, unemployment/worker's comp insurance etc.. are all costs of employing people and when a staffing agency is doing all of that, companies save $$. Also, when headcount is not available.....like nowadays.....people can work as contractors or 1099 employees and not be seen as headcount but are still working, still getting paid and in some cases still receiving benefits.

My question is....how many companies have you applied to in the past? How many of them got back to you regardless of what the outcome was? If it's 100% then you are in the minority. Truth be told most companies....staffing or not will a) not get back to you if you are not a viable candidate, b) ask for references up front to speed the process along and c) do what is best for them as opposed to the 10, 50 or 500 people who apply for a job. It's that simple. Is it perfect? No....but if companies were perfect then we would not be in the mess we are now would we? Good luck to all of those who are job seekers and those who are employers. It's going to be a rough year.

I have known many, many people who have had terrible experiences with recruiters. I have yet to meet one that is one accountable.

There are the costs that you mention in doing business, but once again you are mis-leading people to think that your agency (or any agency) is absorbing that cost. You are getting more than your fair share of pay for doing this work.

The bottom line and the light at the end of the tunnel is that recruiters days are numbered. Corporations are seeding that these agencies are just an added expense and will begin to cut ties.
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Near the water
8,232 posts, read 12,626,815 times
Reputation: 3894
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkkt6 View Post
My goodness there are some stupid people posting in this thread. Recruiters are useless? You should just mess with and belittle recruiters? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Yeah, in this economy those sound like great ideas. Burn a bridge (somethings the ONLY bridge) that will lead you from unemployed to a job. Genius!

you call others stupid yet you say.....
(somethings the only bridge), shouldn't that be sometimes?

And yes recruiters are useless, they are un-accountable people. When you hold no accountability then you are useless.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:03 PM
 
5,524 posts, read 9,509,200 times
Reputation: 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
And guess who loses? THE "PERMATEMP" employee!

It used to be that temps got a bigger hourly wage than permanent employees because they have no health or life insurance benefits, no paid sick time, no vacation time, no 401(k), etc. Not anymore. Once "staffing agencies" sold more and more employers on "alleviating the burden of employing people" the staffing agencies started taking the lion's share of the hourly rate they charge the company for the temporary workers. So they are sitting there being the middleman, collecting money for issuing a paycheck and paying minimal employment taxes, while the PERSON WHO IS ACTUALLY OUT IN THE TRENCHES DOING THE WORK gets less than 1/2 the hourly rate billed, plus gets no benefits or paid time off because the staffing company is hoarding that money for themselves. To a PERMATEMP, holidays mean losing a day's pay. Staffing agencies that turn people into PERMATEMPS who serve on an hourly basis are nothing but bloodsuckers.
There are people who choose to be a contract employee and there are people who "have" to be a contract employee. No one is holding a gun to these employees heads and saying "you must use a staffing agency".

I again state that while there are many companies out there that swindle and take advantage of their contractors there are also some that don't. Is working hourly an ideal situation for all? No but would you rather be working hourly right now or not at all? Some people choose to work as contractors or 1099 employees. Those are the people who understand working as a contractor.

When you talk about "temps" and how shady recruiters are the main area in which you see this is Light Industrial, Clerical, Admin etc. When you get to contracted/flexible professionals this is much fewer are further between...at least in my experience.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:17 PM
 
5,524 posts, read 9,509,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromekitty View Post
I have known many, many people who have had terrible experiences with recruiters. I have yet to meet one that is one accountable.

There are the costs that you mention in doing business, but once again you are mis-leading people to think that your agency (or any agency) is absorbing that cost. You are getting more than your fair share of pay for doing this work.

The bottom line and the light at the end of the tunnel is that recruiters days are numbered. Corporations are seeding that these agencies are just an added expense and will begin to cut ties.
I did not realize you had my P&L in front of you to make this statement. You obviously know my margin % as well as NOI% correct?

If companies are losing so much money using contract employees and it's a wash when they pay staffing companies for using their services then why do companies do it? Ask yourself that. What is the benefit to utilizing an outside resource for staffing. Keep in mind the soft costs that go into using flexible people from a staffing agency (time spent finding them, having FT recruiters on staff during down times when they are not needed, during times when you need to downsize you have unemployment/severance to pay)..........
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 31,561,475 times
Reputation: 7307
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluv00 View Post
There are people who choose to be a contract employee and there are people who "have" to be a contract employee. No one is holding a gun to these employees heads and saying "you must use a staffing agency".
If the employer of choice is using temporary agencies for the type of position these people do, then how can the employee cut out the agency middleman? For most positions, they cannot. Here all temp agencies have "clauses" where the temp cannot switch agencies to get a higher hourly wage if the employer uses different agencies so they are protected and have the lowest wages locked in for themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tluv00 View Post
I again state that while there are many companies out there that swindle and take advantage of their contractors there are also some that don't. Is working hourly an ideal situation for all? No but would you rather be working hourly right now or not at all?
That is the ideal position to have people in for the temporary staffing agencies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tluv00 View Post
Some people choose to work as contractors or 1099 employees. Those are the people who understand working as a contractor.
One glaring gap in your logic is that there are at least 20 different criteria one must meet in order to be considered legally eligible to perform work for a company as a 1099 contractor for IRS purposes. You can't just state "I choose to be a 1099 contractor."

Quote:
Originally Posted by tluv00 View Post
When you talk about "temps" and how shady recruiters are the main area in which you see this is Light Industrial, Clerical, Admin etc. When you get to contracted/flexible professionals this is much fewer are further between...at least in my experience.
It is a shame it is different for the less educated low wage earner that for what you term "professionals." However, at least here in NYC, I see that gap closing, and not in favor of the worker either. For example, I see ads from legal staffing agencies seeking beginner attorneys (who have passed the bar) to work for $25 an hour as temps at major law firms. For a first-year attorney at one of the major law firms the pay is usually $160K with a generous mid-5 figure minimum bonus and all benefits under the sun. So who is absorbing a lot of that "in between" when it comes to the $25 an hour beginner attorney? Of course the law firm is NOT paying a staffing agency the equivalent of $160K plus bonus and benefits for temp attorneys that the staffing agency turns around and pays $25 an hour, but I am sure the agencies are billing at least quadruple that, as just to get an administrative assistant from a temp agency in NYC costs at least $50 an hour.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:23 PM
 
5,524 posts, read 9,509,200 times
Reputation: 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
It sounds to me like the person whose post you are responding to is a person who represents an employer, not a job seeker. As for their comment on a lack of reading comprehension, it was unclear as to whether they meant candidates sent their way by recruiters or the recruiters themselves ... but maybe that is being cleared up for me now. OP, what did you mean?
I hope not. This type of short sightedness is what leads to companies failing in these types of downturns. Depending on the segment in which they are utilizing staffing services there is a ton of money for companies to save....I am talking 40-60% based on what they are currently spending for specific type services.

There are also plenty of companies out there that love the prospect of having flexible people working on projects and on site. Right now there are millions of Americans not working and if a staffing company is able to get those people working then all the power to them. Even in an up economy, the ability to have flexible contractors on board is a way to save on personnel expenses. Again sorry for you and your friends bad experience but it's not that way everywhere.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Near the water
8,232 posts, read 12,626,815 times
Reputation: 3894
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluv00 View Post
I did not realize you had my P&L in front of you to make this statement. You obviously know my margin % as well as NOI% correct?

If companies are losing so much money using contract employees and it's a wash when they pay staffing companies for using their services then why do companies do it? Ask yourself that. What is the benefit to utilizing an outside resource for staffing. Keep in mind the soft costs that go into using flexible people from a staffing agency (time spent finding them, having FT recruiters on staff during down times when they are not needed, during times when you need to downsize you have unemployment/severance to pay)..........


It is simple. Companies already have HR departments. They can and will do the job that staffing agencies have been compensated for, in the future.

What gets me is that post on here that every recruiter/agency isn't the same. There are some good guys out there and yet you offer nothing of value. Just like many of us thought. Just remember, that the people you treat like dirt and as though they are beneath you, are somebody and have walked a many steps before you. Often times, they have forgotten more in their field than you will ever know.
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