Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Unfortunately, the last thousand years or so of history seems to indicate that they went just a shade beyond 'hurt' and 'rejected.' And that's the major problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom
Well if you can't get them to join your club then kill or exile them and if you let them stay fill them with fear........
I suppose I was being a little disingenuous.
The fact is, the whole history of Christianity is a saga of deplorable shame when in came to their relations with the Jewish minority. Not in just a few places or during certain periods of time ... but in every land they ruled and in every generation there was an unrelenting history of oppression, persecution, and even slaughter of the Jewish community. Is it any wonder there are so few Jews in the world today?
The fact is, the whole history of Christianity is a saga of deplorable shame when in came to their relations with the Jewish minority. Not in just a few places or during certain periods of time ... but in every land they ruled and in every generation there was an unrelenting history of oppression, persecution, and even slaughter of the Jewish community. Is it any wonder there are so few Jews in the world today?
...Or that we don't embrace Christianity with open arms?
Fair enough. But wiki isn't always correct in what it says. I would rather learn from a real Jewish person.
Actually disregard the scriptural reference request. I ended up finding a list of messianic prophecies that are to be fulfilled.
But what would be the responses in regards to what I wrote about about the atonement sacrifices and it being changed?
My wife is Jewish and I just went into the bathroom while she was taking a shower and asked her, "So, Leah, what do you Jews think about ol' JC?"
She says that, while they don't have anything against him, and in fact most of them think he was "a pretty good rabbi and taught some good lessons."
But their admiration and/or tolerance of Him goes only that far. None of them--at least to her knowledge--believe that he was the Messiah that was foretold in their scriptures who would manifest Himself and save their people.
She says, "I guess most Jews want a sort of David-type savior to come along. Someone, you know, a little more assertive and ballsy and not so much of the 'turn the other cheek' type of person."
And before she kicked me out of the bathroom she closed capped her opinion in this matter by saying that she "can't understand why the gentiles won't leave the whole thing alone and just believe what they want to."
So there you have it: from a real Jew, in layperson's terms.
Peace out, hombres.
Last edited by DrummerBoy; 10-13-2011 at 11:55 AM..
Sir Les, forgive me, I really have no clue why you chose to post about God making a plant.
My original post, which you quoted, was a direct answer/rebuttal to a post inside the original 'Ask a Jew' thread. Which I said this in the post you reposted.
I agree with what you said but not sure what context to take you. I understand perfectly what God's plan is and how He became flesh to atone for that sin and bring us back into Union with Him.
What I would like to address is the 'Just leave us alone' comments.
I do find it amazing that a lot of Jewish people don't see the things around them. You wait for a Messiah but, lets be honest, if Yeshua was not the Messiah - then Jehovah hasn't spoken to you in over 2400 years..since Malachi - and what did He say in Malachi 'I have loved you and you say "How has thy loved us?"' - 'Ye offer polluted bread upon mine alter; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee?'
He continues with 'I have no pleasure in you, saith the LORD of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand'
'For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering; for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.
Is it any wonder that the Gentiles believe that Jehovah manifested Himself into flesh to atone for our sins and now we are ALL one with Him again? He is great among the Gentiles! Same Jehovah that you are waiting on, became flesh as a man, named Jesus, and was the Lamb of G-d to atone for us.
Don't you wonder why Jehovah has not spoken to your people for 2400 years? Maybe He did and you don't see it.
Isaiah 28:11 says that Jehovah will speak to His people with Stammering Lips, and another language. If you are waiting for the Messiah to come and restore the temple, like you said - when is this nother language and stammering lips going to come? In 2400 years it has not happened. I know it has already passed and come to fruitation with the baptism of His Holy Spirit you speak in another language as the Spirit gives you utterance.
So why don't we just leave you alone? Great question, it was foretold that He would be rejected by His own people. Not to mention it is because of the High Priest at the time of Yeshuah's death that made it this way 'May his blood be on us and on our children'
But keep this in mind as you await the 'Messiah'. In the End an Anti-Christ will come and enter the Temple and declare himself to be G-d. It will appear great at first be he will then tell you that Jehovah - the great I AM - is not Jehovah but that he is to be worshipped instead. Great tragedy will occur and over 2/3'rd of G-d's people will be wiped away. At this point the real Messiah - Jehovah wrapped in flesh (notice NOT Jesus a second person of a trinity), will appear and you will all run to Him for safety. You WILL see wounds in His hands and will ask 'What are they wounds from' and He will reply 'These are the wound that were given to me by my friends' - you will instantly see at that point - Jesus was G-d manifested in flesh.
This was foretold in Zechariah:
Quote:
"And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends." (Zech. 13:6)
I am not asking you to convert to Christianity. But to recognize the fullfilment of scriptures and what was foretold has indeed came true. Most of the prophecies you are expecting won't come true until the return of the Messiah, not the first coming. Jehovah called His people stiff-necked, because all they wanted was to be left alone. They were fine with being beaten in Egypt because at least they had a house and some good food, not manna and a desert.
Quote:
Exodus 33:5 For the LORD had said to Moses, "Tell the Israelites, 'You are a stiff-necked people. If I were to go with you even for a moment, I might destroy you. Now take off your ornaments and I will decide what to do with you.'"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Les
I see no question marks in Your Post...it is more like a statement of understanding.
So let us draw near to the word of God....and follow along mindfully...of the teachings there of Genesis...and what was taken without permission...needs to be restored sinlessly to reverse something.
....
Do the math.
I do find it amazing that a lot of Jewish people don't see the things around them. You wait for a Messiah but, lets be honest, if Yeshua was not the Messiah - then Jehovah hasn't spoken to you in over 2400 years.
Don't you wonder why Jehovah has not spoken to your people for 2400 years? Maybe He did and you don't see it.
And from my perspective, I don't understand what you don't understand about this: we wait for a (foretold) Messiah, who hasn't yet come. See, what you're doing is taking it for granted that Jesus of Nazareth was that Messiah. He might be your Christian Messiah, but he isn't my Jewish one. It won't ever get any simpler than that.
On the other hand, the actual words and actions of Jesus are completely unknown to you. The New Testament wasn't codified until centuries after his death--and he never wrote any of it, anyway. Second- or third-hand accounts, at best. This is what you present to me as the documentation I should take to be the truth?
Originally Posted by TruthSeeker2011
I do find it amazing that a lot of Jewish people don't see the things around them. You wait for a Messiah but, lets be honest, if Yeshua was not the Messiah - then Jehovah hasn't spoken to you in over 2400 years.
Don't you wonder why Jehovah has not spoken to your people for 2400 years? Maybe He did and you don't see it.
And you all are still waiting for him to come the 2nd time and finish what he failed to do the first time...
Hmmmm and you all have been waiting for 2000+ years... Maybe you all missed something the first time and we Jews got it right.....
hehe that would be a great point Jazzymom but I am not waiting on Him to return. I have Him now, His Holy Spirit is within me and I do speak with stammering lips and in another language because of His Spirit. In fact, I just spoke with Him a few moments ago at Youth Service.
@Fred314 - so you are saying Jehovah wrote the Old Testament? Or was it men who were inspired by Jehovah when He spoke to them and instructed them to write it down?
Not a difference, the Apostles wrote down the events that took place, reminded of those events by the Spirit of G-d and are used as a foundation to build upon. It isn't meant to exclude what Jehovah said in the past but rather a fulfillment of what He had promised this whole time.
... I do find it amazing that a lot of Jewish people don't see the things around them.
What a insulting, patronizing, condescending bunch of foul-smelling rubbish.
The Christian scriptures are bogus and mythological to most Jews. After 2,000 years of harassing, persecuting, oppressing, killing and massacring Jews because they refuse to convert to Christianity ...
Some people render the four-letter Name as "Jehovah," but this pronunciation is particularly unlikely. The word "Jehovah" comes from the fact that ancient Jewish texts used to put the vowels of the Name "Adonai" (the usual substitute for YHVH) under the consonants of YHVH to remind people not to pronounce YHVH as written. A sixteenth century German Christian scribe, while transliterating the Bible into Latin for the Pope, wrote the Name out as it appeared in his texts, with the consonants of YHVH and the vowels of Adonai, and came up with the word JeHoVaH ("J" is pronounced "Y" in German), and the name stuck.
TruthSeeker, if you want to know how Jews interpret the passages that Christians consider to be messianic, see the Jews for Judaism website.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
