Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Madrid girl: what I find fascinating about your original post, is not the incorrect facts, but rather the obvious "agenda" you bring to the table with the manner in which you ask the question. Sounds like somebody has a little "hatred in their heart." Very sad.
So I got a little something wrong, whaddya expect from a goyisher kopf?
Ha - no problem there!
It's just common for many people to think that Judaism is the "religion" of the Bible, so it must have existed for a long time. The Bible does not put forth a consistent statement of it's theology - it must be teased out from it, and even then scholars still debate the different forms the religion of the Israelites went through on their path to monotheism, and eventually Judaism. Even among Judaism there was not even a consensus on what was the "right" way to worship or practice it, and thus the various different philosophies sprung up (pharisees, sadduccees) and sects (essenes, christians) - each with their own interpretation of Judaism, and how to interpret the various books of the Bible.
There are conservative Jews who will tell you that their traditional form of Judaism is the only correct way, and it has been the only way practiced since the time of Abraham - but this is akin to a fundamentalist Christian claiming that they are practicing the only, true form of Christianity.
Just a minor point, really - but an important one.
Even among Judaism there was not even a consensus on what was the "right" way to worship or practice it, and thus the various different philosophies sprung up (pharisees, sadduccees) and sects (essenes, christians) - each with their own interpretation of Judaism, and how to interpret the various books of the Bible.
There are conservative Jews who will tell you that their traditional form of Judaism is the only correct way, and it has been the only way practiced since the time of Abraham - but this is akin to a fundamentalist Christian claiming that they are practicing the only, true form of Christianity.
Good points in there, Whoppers.
It should be interesting to note that today, you will not find any Pharisees, Sadduccees, essenes, etc. One consistent theme throughout Jewish history, is that those groups who seek to change the fundamental form of the religion, i.e. the Torah, can last a couple to a few centuries at best, then they are eventually re-absorbed into mainstream Judaism. Today we have the reform and conservative Jewish movements. Neither has been around more than 150 years, and with current inter-faith marriage and low birth rates, current statistics show neither movement is likely to survive the next 100 years. In the end, the only constant in Judaism, is that Jews who follow the Torah and their descendants, will have a place in the future. For all others, all bets are off.
It should be interesting to note that today, you will not find any Pharisees, Sadduccees, essenes, etc. One consistent theme throughout Jewish history, is that those groups who seek to change the fundamental form of the religion, i.e. the Torah, can last a couple to a few centuries at best, then they are eventually re-absorbed into mainstream Judaism. Today we have the reform and conservative Jewish movements. Neither has been around more than 150 years, and with current inter-faith marriage and low birth rates, current statistics show neither movement is likely to survive the next 100 years. In the end, the only constant in Judaism, is that Jews who follow the Torah and their descendants, will have a place in the future. For all others, all bets are off.
Well, the interesting thing about all that is that the Pharisees most likely morphed into what's known as Rabbinic Judaism. So, for at least one party, they live on - albeit under a different name. Many Jews themselves, especially in the Middle Ages, referred to Rabbinic Judaism as a continuation of Pharisaism.
The main components of Judaism (certain shared beliefs concerning the sacredness of the Torah, Sabbath Observance, Dietary Laws, etc.) went into what scholars would argue for was a "Common Judaism". This was the Judaism that the ancient Greeks and Romans wrote about, and something almost all Jews practicing Judaism would have agreed to. But these are basic concepts that still require a large degree of interpretation: how are the laws of the Torah to apply in a changing world? How are the Jews to worship a God that stated he was to be worshipped in the Temple alone? How strict was the Sabbath observance - or what things were permitted, and what things were prohibited? How strict were the dietary laws, and how did this affect eating with gentiles?
These basic "Common Judaism" features are what produced the multitude of differing opinions concerning their practice. Even the change into a religion of the Book produced problems, since the newly literate population (though the percentage is still debated) could now gain access to special wisdom through the reading of scripture - rather than having to have been born into a Priestly family. Especially during Second Temple Judaism this became a problem because along with literacy and a written text, comes the possibility that a diversity of interpretations will arise. And that's exactly what happened - everyone interpretated the Scripture to their liking, and the reading of Torah became important. It's conjectured that the origins of the "Oral Tradition" sprang up at this time - the teaching that alongside the "Written Tradition" of Moses, he had been given an "Oral Tradition". This Oral Tradition gave a degree of power back to the holders of the Tradition - arguments and diverse opinions that stemmed from a literary approach to Judaism could now be tempered with concrete pronouncements by the holders of the Oral Tradition.
So I must disagree slightly on your view of "Mainstream Judaism", or at least quantify it a little bit. I would call that the "Common Judaism" that I wrote about above. No matter the contents of this Common Judaism, it has still shown that it needs interpreted. Every text needs interpreted. The need becomes even more cogent once times change and the text becomes farther and farther away from it's original audience. Only by interpreting it and keeping it up to date, can the old "Common Judaism" be made to serve a purpose still. I would say there were very compelling reasons for people to start interpreting Torah in the first place - it's not exactly clear-cut on many issues that would face modern adherents.
We find the biblical authors reinterpteting and retelling previous biblical authors in the same canon - which is an amazing and fascinating part of the library.
First off we dont actually have a "pharisaical" text, just references to them in rabbinic sources, in the NT, and in Josephus. So our knowledge of what constituted actual pharisaism is limited, and based on inference and analysis. Second Judaism ALWAYS evolves and changes despite later attempts to minimize that. Even if a particular generation of zugim WERE pharisees, I would not minimize the innovativeness of later generations of Tannaim.
I will admit that pharisaism SOUNDS more like rabbinism that sadducean or essene judaism do.
Hanukkah is not even an important holiday, and is a regular work day of Jews around the world.
However, the past few decades Jews wanted to bring back the importance of the holiday so they have something to compare and alt with Christmas since it usually fall during Christmas month.
the late 1950s and early 1960s wants its assimilationist meme back.
In the most recent decades serious Jews have reacted to that to a considerable degree - by reemphasizing other child friendly holidays (purim and succoth) and by trying to bring hannukah back to its roots and deemphasizing practices (like giving large gifts) that attempt to ape christmas.
Quote:
Why do Jews always have to have alt holiday when Christians have their own?!
You mean like passover near easter, or shavout near pentecost? You havent actually read the New Testament, have you?
Quote:
Also many Jews try to avoid anything to do with Christmas which I see as ridiculous if they live in a country where Christmas Day is a national holiday.
we gave you "white christmas" couldnt you be more appreciative?
You mean like passover near easter, or shavout near pentecost? You havent actually read the New Testament, have you?
Don't forget Sukkot near Tabernacles.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
