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LawrenceDad, we already dubunked your video in another thread, remember? You were making a point with your video that went something like this:
Because Timothy McVeigh hated the US government and put a bomb next to the Federal building in OKC, it's abundantly clear that all Americans hate the US government and are chomping at the bit to bring down the nation's leaders.
If you would be willing to accept the statement above, then I'll be willing to accept your lone video of a few youths throwing rocks at Chrstians in Israel as "proof" that Israel is unsafe for Chrstians.
I don't mind you asking at all. So here's the basic belief:
1. The world is currently 5772 years old. We started counting with the birth of Adam and Eve, which occured on the 6th day of creation.
2. How long the first 6 days of creation lasted is a point of dispute. It could be that a "day" of creation, we'd say was a billion years in our current calculations.
3. On the 7th day since the beginning of creation, G-d "rested," and this is the day we now calculate as the Sabbath (Chrstians for a reason I do not know calculate it differently and place the Sabbath on the 8th day, which on today's calendar is Sunday).
4. That first Shabbos corresponds with the Jewish celebration of Rosh Hashana. We call that day the birth of the world.
5. That same first Shabbos, the daily counting for the calendar returns to what I'd call a normal calendar. That means Adam and Eve were born 5772 years ago this past September, when we celebrated Rosh Hashana.
In terms of the world being "programmed,' we believe that G-d wrote the ending at the same time He wrote the beginning. The original idea was for the world to be "completed" on the 7th day after creation, but because of the sin in the Garden of Eden, that plan was ruined. There are kabbalistic ideas too big to be discussed in the scope of this forum, that show us that each 1,000 period in the world's existence correlates with each day of creation. And by that example, being 98% of the way to the end of times (6,000 years), the world has the same feeling overall (like everything is speeding up - technology, communication, awareness of issues in Jerusalem) that we are currently corresponding to the few minutes before the arrival of Shabbos each Friday afternoon. Jews will know what I mean, when I say there's a "switch" that occurs when we go from the weekday secular to the arrival of the Shabbos. Per this example, we feel the arrival of moschiach is VERY near. Right now it's 5:15pm, and Shabbos comes in tonight at 5:18 pm, so to speak. Time to get your "house" in order.
I don't mind you asking at all. So here's the basic belief:
1. The world is currently 5772 years old. We started counting with the birth of Adam and Eve, which occured on the 6th day of creation.
2. How long the first 6 days of creation lasted is a point of dispute. It could be that a "day" of creation, we'd say was a billion years in our current calculations.
3. On the 7th day since the beginning of creation, G-d "rested," and this is the day we now calculate as the Sabbath (Chrstians for a reason I do not know calculate it differently and place the Sabbath on the 8th day, which on today's calendar is Sunday).
4. That first Shabbos corresponds with the Jewish celebration of Rosh Hashana. We call that day the birth of the world.
5. That same first Shabbos, the daily counting for the calendar returns to what I'd call a normal calendar. That means Adam and Eve were born 5772 years ago this past September, when we celebrated Rosh Hashana.
In terms of the world being "programmed,' we believe that G-d wrote the ending at the same time He wrote the beginning. The original idea was for the world to be "completed" on the 7th day after creation, but because of the sin in the Garden of Eden, that plan was ruined. There are kabbalistic ideas too big to be discussed in the scope of this forum, that show us that each 1,000 period in the world's existence correlates with each day of creation. And by that example, being 98% of the way to the end of times (6,000 years), the world has the same feeling overall (like everything is speeding up - technology, communication, awareness of issues in Jerusalem) that we are currently corresponding to the few minutes before the arrival of Shabbos each Friday afternoon. Jews will know what I mean, when I say there's a "switch" that occurs when we go from the weekday secular to the arrival of the Shabbos. Per this example, we feel the arrival of moschiach is VERY near. Right now it's 5:15pm, and Shabbos comes in tonight at 5:18 pm, so to speak. Time to get your "house" in order.
That leaves around 228 years...
I sometimes wonder what more damage man can cause to this earth, and we to each other in 228 years...
I have my learning cap on now...as such i'm just trying to be 'nuetral'...
Many xians calculated the end to come near or at the millinium...the year 2000....that date came and passed...
And now every one is speaking of the Mayan Calender...which ends in the year 2012...and so people think somethings going to occur then as well...
Maybe this is to long to answer here...
But what calender or calculations do Xians use that places their dates at odds with yours...well not yours personally but kabbalistic calculations?
And do you place any value on the Mayan 2012 date?
I think you'll find Jews rather patient. Every time in our history we've tried to hasten the arrival of moschaich, it typically has ended up with a bunch of dead Jews. I think/hope we've learned that it's better to pay close attention to the signs without actually trying to manipulate the process.
Our view actually includes two different ways to hasten the arrival.
View #1: Jewish adherence to the Torah remains abismal, and since the world was only programmed to exist for 6,000 years (and it's the year 5772 right now), moschiach will come "any time" now, in order to re-orient the Jews back to Torah learning, and to allow non-Jews the opportunity to see truth in action. Although it's unclear how this will play out, this scenario usually includes the Jews "losing" Jerusalem to either Edom (the Europeans) or to Ishmael (the Arabs) before the arrival of Moschiach, who will reclaim the land for the Jews. View #2 below is much better for all involved.
View #2: Jews will find some level of unity amongst ourselves, and by doing so, we can actually "usher in" the time of moschiach. No need for us to lose the land. This time of peace and understanding will last approximately 1,000 years (called the messianic era, in which Moschaich will die and be buried in the ground, but the good he began will continue for 1,000 years), where all the questions we have in the Torah and Talmud will be answered, and "man will beat sword into ploughshare."
Very interesting and again very close to what the evangelicals believe.
Briefly, they believe it was 2000 years from Adam to Noah, 2000 years from Noah to jesus, and we are now in 2000+ The concept was that this made up 6000 years and fulfilled/equalled the number of man which is 6, they cite a scripture from Peter that a day is as a 1000 years and visa versa to get to this. All hell was supposed to have broken loose by Y2K and then the messiah comes and rules for 1000 years. But that is where the parallel stops. 7000 years of course 7 is gods favourite number hence the perfection of whatever (must have something to do with the 7th day rest aka sabbath)
In this 1000 years, satan is bound (in their eyes sawtan/sawtawn the transliteration of the Hebrew for adversary a real entity/person) According to their left behind doctrine regarding the temporary escape, some Jews/goyim/heathen (JGH) will survive the 7 plagues/judgements which include 50kg hailstones (picture a sack of cement) and now they have returned from their "cloud surfing with jesus" rapture aka the marriage supper of the lamb aka party for the "elect" while we JGH folk are left to suffer the wrath of angelic judgements. Getting ahead of myself here.
Now your Jewish Messiah is in their minds the antichrist so he and satan and the false prophet (the pope) are bound in chains for 1000 years. According to their doctrine, once they die or in this case raptured, they are transformed into angelic beings and as such have no sex organs or are ess. sexless. The left behind folk/survivors however are ruled by these returning saints who rule and convert the ungodly. I call them kingdom kopz. In this time it is not known if the the survivors can breed but for sake of argument let us assume they can. For us humans, we continue to procreate, evil is impossible as the satanic trinity is bound up for 1000 years. One has to assume these angelic beings/saints need no sleep thus we are all under their watchful eyez 24/7 however, in spite of this, we somehow are able to rebel and amass a huge army w/o them noticing.
After 1000 years, satan is released for the mother of all battles. Somehow his evil influence has managed to usurp jesus and his army of kingdom kopz and get the survivors to build his army. Part of this is the breeding of 200 million horses and training of a mounted infantry. The river Euphrates dries up enabling this army to invade Jerusalem from the east. Jesus arrives and with laser eyes takes out the entire army in one foul swoop, the blood of the fallen is as high as the horses bridle.
One assumes all the survivors of what was the great tribulation are part of this huge conspiracy.
Never mind the logistics nightmare of actually feeding a foreign invading army of 200 million and their horses, can you imagine the poor buggers at the back of the column how much horse dung they would have to navigate over or around?
How long is an average infantry horse? 2.5m? Assume they ride four abreast, that is a column of 2.5m x 50M = 125 000 km column
What is the circumference of the earth? ~40 000 km so we have a column (allegedly from China) that circumnavigates the earth THREE times (surely observable from space satellite) yet totally undetectable by the Kingdom Kopz and their messiah jesus and this jesus is supposed to be the the omnimax god of creation.
I will refrain from calculating the tonnage of horse excrement, the food required to feed the army and the general communication problems they would have when whoever shouts the command halt or charge.
Then the old earth is destroyed, a new one created, a new cuboid Jerusalem descends from the heavens something like a giant rubic cube and all the elect/converts go there to attend a never ending church service while enjoying streets of gold, golden mansions, etc.
We are told this is god's infallible word and should accept it as truth. I think rather John of Patmos was a lousy mathematician and imbibed a few too many hallucinogen mushrooms.
I don't understand it all, but i definatly don't laugh...
I don't know enough to 'mock' anything at this point...
I don't laugh, rather I listen, consider, and learn...
It is not laughing or mocking but rather ridicule. One of the problems theist have is the flexipreferential of what is to be taken allegorically and what is literal as far as biblical doctrine goes. Laying it out like this with some simple math should hopefully encourage folk to think about what they so wilfully believe.
There are other scenarios like this I have debunked with simple math and physics. Eschatology (end times) was one of my areas of great interest and even when I was a theist, found the claims implausible
What I forgot to mention was that before all this tribulation occurs, all of humanity IOW SEVEN BILLION folk have to take on a mark which is known as the mark of the beast (MoB - mark of the antichrist) and becomes the method whereby we buy and sell. Evangelists still believe this will be an RFID chip implanted in the forehead or right hand, initially it was thought to be a barcode that would be tattooed on. This is 80's technology and 25-30 years later still is top of the pops. This MoB has to be implemented in a period of 42 months (according to them) and I suppose if you live in the USA this may seem plausible. Now jump on a plane and come to Africa and determine if this still is plausible. Some places still don't have electricity or piped sanitised water yet they will apparently all line up to take on this satanic mark in the form of and RFID chip.
The logistics and cost of such an exercise is impossible but we are way pat the RFID technology and soon banks will use biometrics to replace your debit or credit card. Biometrics being fingerprints, palm prints and retina/iris eye scanners. We all have those unique marks but then their theology falls flat in the mud as these are obviously marks given to man by god. In ten years time when this biometric becomes a reality in 1st world countries, they will probably still be postulating the RFID chip.
RFID is used today as a means of livestock tracking, a means of anti-shoplifting on clothing and most produce, tracking of pets and there have been cases of older folk having this as a tracking device that have dementia and wonder off.
Most evangelicals have a cell phone so with the current technology you are any ways tracked by triangulation to within 10m2 so the big brother fears of Orwell's 1984 has been here for some time.
In South Africa, we have had fingerprint scanners at our DMV for our driver's licences since the 90's. So Biometrics are already in use. Just a matter of time before it is rolled out internationally.
Scary stuff huh?
The scary part is that folk believe this as fact just because some dude 2000 years ago said so and b/c it is in the xian bible
The scary part is that folk believe this as fact just because some dude 2000 years ago said so and b/c it is in the xian bible
Definitely not true. Jesus Christ excisted, and there has been proof and evidence of it. Muhammed, Buddha and other main people in religion were also true and found.
Of cource, since you're a non-believer you will never understand the truth unfortunetly.
Definitely not true. Jesus Christ excisted, and there has been proof and evidence of it. Muhammed, Buddha and other main people in religion were also true and found.
Of cource, since you're a non-believer you will never understand the truth unfortunetly.
Link the historical proof for Jesus..... Don't bother with the bible since it is not historical.
Definitely not true. Jesus Christ excisted, and there has been proof and evidence of it. Muhammed, Buddha and other main people in religion were also true and found.
Of cource, since you're a non-believer you will never understand the truth unfortunetly.
Dear Lucy, you know nothing of your religion with statements like these. Sorry to burst your bubble lass, the god you think is real only exists in your imagination. I am not one of those atheists that came to this conclusion on a whim and hence my research and studies of your bible is why I am an atheist today.
Your jesus never existed. There may have been a man that was a rabble rouser but that is all. His whole make up follows those of greco/roman pagan gods of the time and is nowhere original.
The problem is you are attempting looking out from your box with slits specifically designed to keep you blind. You have to get out of the box and investigate all avenues but if it took me 5 years of research, don't expect quick results, this is what is called fervent study and your pastor would discourage that and insist you merely believe/have faith.
I know your brand of woo intimately having practiced it for 30+ years, IOW I was an evangelical christian, a praise and worship leader, an elder, a teacher et al.
Please don't come here and tell me what I don't know. Your ignorance of your faith which is loosely derived from Judaism and your utter lack of knowledge of the Jewish faith proves this claim I have just made.
I can forgive you as you are obviously still very young and with youth is exuberance but little wisdom.
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