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Old 03-23-2014, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Lake Worth, FL
388 posts, read 384,932 times
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Isn't that a Christian belief?

 
Old 03-23-2014, 07:57 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,033,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
IUncle/niece marriage is not forbidden. Aunt/nephew marriage is forbidden. Our matriarch Sarah was Father Abraham's aunt.
I thought they werd first cousins...
 
Old 03-23-2014, 07:59 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,033,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
The laws in effect were the 7 Noachide laws, which all of humankind is obligated to keep.



Adultery is one of the 7 Noachide laws, which all of humankind are obligated to keep.
He didn't think that one through, did he?...
 
Old 03-23-2014, 08:03 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,033,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
The Torah's laws are for Jews only. The 7 Noachide laws are for all of humankind, and those were G-d's laws for all people (and still are).
Were they really for Jews only???...
 
Old 03-23-2014, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
938 posts, read 1,515,379 times
Reputation: 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikva View Post
Isn't that a Christian belief?
Many Christians believe that Judaism is simply Christianity without Jesus. Or more accurately, Christianity with Jesus being a future rather than historical figure, who would also be God in the flesh and will die for people's sins and rise again with all the Pauline theology. I ask questions to get Christians to question their own assumptions and go "oh wait, that theological statement, like most of Christianity, was invented by Paul of Tarsus. Why did I expect it to be in Judaism?".
 
Old 03-23-2014, 09:33 PM
 
4,729 posts, read 4,364,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
The meforshim ( our blessed sages of old) say that the Avos (Avraham, Yitzchok and Yaakov) kept all the Mitzvos when living inside the land of Israel. But they did not when living outside the land. That's why Rachel Imeinu (Yaakov's second) wife died on the road just outside the land of Israel. Yaakov was not permitted by the Torah to have two wives (inside if Israel).
Sorry, one incorrect item above. The reason Rachel could not enter the land of Israel wasn't because Yaakov was forbidden to have two wives. Rather, the isser (forbidden activity) was that he married two sisters. Since Yaakov kept the mitzvos inside Israel, Hashem could not let him enter with both wives, and it was his marriage to Rachel that was the forbidden marriage (inside the land of Israel).

There are of course other Midrashim that explain why Rachel died so young and in a deserted place en chutz l'oretz (outside of Israel), one being that k'lal yisroel would cry at her kever (grave - also means womb) during their exiles from Israel, and Rachel's defining characteristic was her comfort and mercy.
 
Old 03-24-2014, 04:51 AM
 
Location: Lake Worth, FL
388 posts, read 384,932 times
Reputation: 265
I thought her death was because of the curse Yaakov placed on the person who held Laban's idols, regardless of location.

Do you take the Midrashim as truth/literal?

Last edited by Tikva; 03-24-2014 at 05:08 AM..
 
Old 03-24-2014, 06:03 AM
 
4,729 posts, read 4,364,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikva View Post
I thought her death was because of the curse Yaakov placed on the person who held Laban's idols, regardless of location.

Do you take the Midrashim as truth/literal?
Yes, another explanation.

Your question on whether Midrashim are literal isn't exactly the right question to ask. Literal? Well, it depends. The ideas held in the Misrash are woven throughout the fabric of who we are as a people and there's tons to learn from the Midrashim. They are literal in certain contexts and not in others.
 
Old 03-24-2014, 07:51 AM
 
864 posts, read 871,208 times
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Quote:
Do you take the Midrashim as truth/literal?
Yes. Midrashim are Oral Torah.
 
Old 03-24-2014, 09:53 AM
 
4,729 posts, read 4,364,243 times
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Truth (emes) and literal are two entirely different things, btw. Something can be entirely non-literal and still be emes. Something can be factually incorrect and still be emes.

Emes is something that brings us and the people around us closer to Hashem.
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