Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have a questions from the child of a Jewish man who hid his religion from his children.
I understand that name is through the father and culture is through the mother. Is that correct? Can we call religious practice culture? If the father marries a Christian, then the children cannot be Jewish. Is that true? Does the father carry any of his culture and religious beliefs forward, or are they corrupted because the mother has a different set of cultural/religious beliefs? What if the father refused to have the children baptized. Does that ensure that children can make their own choice about religion?
I'm trying to understand.
I dated a Jewish man for several years at university and he too left his religion. I recently asked him whether he could understand why a Jewish man would withhold that information from his children. Answer : good for him. He did the right thing for you. My university friend married a Catholic and did not have children.
> I understand that name is through the father and culture is through the mother.
Under Jewish law, the Jewish identity passes through the mother. Issues of "name" and "culture" are not considered
> Can we call religious practice culture?
If you want. It has no bearing on Jewish law and understanding, though.
> If the father marries a Christian, then the children cannot be Jewish. Is that true?
Unless the children convert, then, yes this is true. They are not Jewish.
> Does the father carry any of his culture and religious beliefs forward, or are they corrupted because the mother has a different set of cultural/religious beliefs?
The father continues to be Jewish.
> What if the father refused to have the children baptized. Does that ensure that children can make their own choice about religion?
I don't know Christian law but it seems to me that even a baptized Christian can eventually make his own choice about his religion.
> I understand that name is through the father and culture is through the mother.
Under Jewish law, the Jewish identity passes through the mother. Issues of "name" and "culture" are not considered
> Can we call religious practice culture?
If you want. It has no bearing on Jewish law and understanding, though.
> If the father marries a Christian, then the children cannot be Jewish. Is that true?
Unless the children convert, then, yes this is true. They are not Jewish.
> Does the father carry any of his culture and religious beliefs forward, or are they corrupted because the mother has a different set of cultural/religious beliefs?
The father continues to be Jewish.
> What if the father refused to have the children baptized. Does that ensure that children can make their own choice about religion?
I don't know Christian law but it seems to me that even a baptized Christian can eventually make his own choice about his religion.
I have always been interested in how this works, and I wonder if it can be said that religious practice is part of culture and that neither has any bearing on Jewish law, we can however recognize how Jewish law has a significant bearing on religious practice and culture. Right?
"Halakha guides not only religious practices and beliefs, but also numerous aspects of day-to-day life."
PS: In October (in Ireland) Our daughter married a man who has a mother and father who are Jewish, but he does not consider himself Jewish and doesn't follow any Jewish customs like celebrating Hunukkah, so what is what along these lines, by choice or otherwise, is yet another interesting cultural and/or religious issue in more than a few ways. My sisters also didn't take on the surnames of their husbands...
I have always been interested in how this works, and I wonder if it can be said that religious practice is part of culture and that neither has any bearing on Jewish law, we can however recognize how Jewish law has a significant bearing on religious practice and culture. Right?
"Halakha guides not only religious practices and beliefs, but also numerous aspects of day-to-day life."
PS: In October (in Ireland) Our daughter married a man who has a mother and father who are Jewish, but he does not consider himself Jewish and doesn't follow any Jewish customs like celebrating Hunukkah, so what is what along these lines, by choice or otherwise, is yet another interesting cultural and/or religious issue in more than a few ways. My sisters also didn't take on the surnames of their husbands...
It has always been my understanding that "once a Jew, always a Jew." In other words, your son-in-law may not consider himself to be Jewish, but he's Jewish nonetheless. Judaism leaves that door open for him, should he ever have a change of heart and decide to come back.
As a side note: Celebrating Hanukkah isn't really that big a deal for us. Observing Torah is.
It has always been my understanding that "once a Jew, always a Jew." In other words, your son-in-law may not consider himself to be Jewish, but he's Jewish nonetheless. Judaism leaves that door open for him, should he ever have a change of heart and decide to come back.
As a side note: Celebrating Hanukkah isn't really that big a deal for us. Observing Torah is.
That's pretty much always been my understanding as well, but I've never been too comfortable with that understanding or law, since I lean more in the direction that we are what we choose to be rather than what others might claim otherwise. Best not to get into that can of worms of course, but I can easily understand how some people adopt and abide by some "laws" while others don't, and I know some people think these laws are beyond question while others certainly don't feel the same way.
Not sure how different it is that I was born and raised a Catholic, but I don't in anyway call myself Catholic anymore and haven't for a long time. Doesn't matter to me if the Catholic Church believes I am always Catholic because I've been through Holy First Communion (or for any other reason). In the same way, however, I know the Catholic Church "leaves that door open" for me should I ever have a change of heart and decide to come back.
All simply depends on how we understand or accept such laws, beliefs and practices, and needless to say there is much difference of opinion about all such things. Here's to that freedom in any case! A freedom I feel very strongly about promoting, or at least allowing.
That's pretty much always been my understanding as well, but I've never been too comfortable with that understanding or law, since I lean more in the direction that we are what we choose to be rather than what others might claim otherwise. Best not to get into that can of worms of course, but I can easily understand how some people adopt and abide by some "laws" while others don't, and I know some people think these laws are beyond question while others certainly don't feel the same way.
Not sure how different it is that I was born and raised a Catholic, but I don't in anyway call myself Catholic anymore and haven't for a long time. Doesn't matter to me if the Catholic Church believes I am always Catholic because I've been through Holy First Communion (or for any other reason). In the same way, however, I know the Catholic Church "leaves that door open" for me should I ever have a change of heart and decide to come back.
All simply depends on how we understand or accept such laws, beliefs and practices, and needless to say there is much difference of opinion about all such things. Here's to that freedom in any case! A freedom I feel very strongly about promoting, or at least allowing.
"To be or not to be..."
I think that this quote from the 1947 movie Gentleman's Agreement best expresses why even atheists such as Professer Lieberman in the story nevertheless still call themselves Jews:
"There must be millions of people nowadays who are religious only in the vaguest sense. I've often wondered why the Jewish ones among them still go on calling themselves Jews. Can you guess why, Mr. Green? Because the world still makes it an advantage not to be one. Thus, for many of us, it becomes a matter of pride to go on calling ourselves Jews."
Note: The "pride" he speaks of isn't from coat-tailing on the accomplishments of others. It's from standing up to the bullies of the world by refusing to to become one of them, even though that might make one's life easier.
I think that this quote from the 1947 movie Gentleman's Agreement best expresses why even atheists such as Professer Lieberman in the story nevertheless still call themselves Jews:
"There must be millions of people nowadays who are religious only in the vaguest sense. I've often wondered why the Jewish ones among them still go on calling themselves Jews. Can you guess why, Mr. Green? Because the world still makes it an advantage not to be one. Thus, for many of us, it becomes a matter of pride to go on calling ourselves Jews."
Note: The "pride" he speaks of isn't from coat-tailing on the accomplishments of others. It's from standing up to the bullies of the world by refusing to to become one of them, even though that might make one's life easier.
I get it and no doubt what is a matter of pride has a way of causing people to believe and act as they do. Define them to one extent or another. I like the more humble ways myself...
My father, for example, grew up mostly in a strict Catholic School for boys and what little he told about the experience was all we had to know about how horrible an experience it was for him. Only a third grade education as well. Yet, he managed to be a successful self-made man after leaving the dangers and challenges of living under a dictatorship. Also a matter of pride for him to overcome all he did. Good, caring, loving husband and father, but never one to focus on the past or those hardships. Never one to wear any of that on his sleeve.
Not sure I know how better to describe these sorts of differences, but there is nothing wrong with taking pride in who we are or where we come from of course. Mostly just a matter of how we express that pride for me I guess.
I get it and no doubt what is a matter of pride has a way of causing people to believe and act as they do. Define them to one extent or another. I like the more humble ways myself...
My father, for example, grew up mostly in a strict Catholic School for boys and what little he told about the experience was all we had to know about how horrible an experience it was for him. Only a third grade education as well. Yet, he managed to be a successful self-made man after leaving the dangers and challenges of living under a dictatorship. Also a matter of pride for him to overcome all he did. Good, caring, loving husband and father, but never one to focus on the past or those hardships. Never one to wear any of that on his sleeve.
Not sure I know how better to describe these sorts of differences, but there is nothing wrong with taking pride in who we are or where we come from of course. Mostly just a matter of how we express that pride for me I guess.
I agree with you on how it matters in the way we express our pride. Best to wear it inwardly, rather than ostentatiously outwardly.
I don't know whether your father is still alive, but he sounded like a wonderful individual who no doubt enriched your own life for having him in it.
Just thought I would ramble today, if any of the very wise happen to read it, I am always in need of correction.
Yup, let all the nations come, or let them be forced to come, one has to wonder what on earth happens when those universal prophesies come into play. The whole world has come against Israel and it's leaders, and all of the sudden something happens in Syria, and in Judea at the same time and the whole world stops.
The whole world stops and scratches they heads as they look at Judea, and the whole world knows it was God, and then the whole world become one religion.
Of course, that happens over the cause of Jerusalem when all the nations are deciding the cause of Jerusalem against Israel, I say let them come, let's get this prty started cause things will never get better before they get worse.
I wonder what it is that happens in Syria, I have a good idea about what happens in Judea, and then one has to consider Christianity. Does Damascus symbolise modern Christianity?
Why?
Modern Christianity has a claim on Israel through a promise to the ten lost tribes in Hosea 2 where Judah was still walki g with God and faithful, but the ten tribes of Ephraim had set up pagan alters and even enticed many in Judah to Dan and Bethel, and because of this, God refined Judah in Babylon, but exiled Israel to all the nations of the world.
The northern kingdom known as the kingdom of Ephraim, the ten lost tribes, they became lost because of their wanton desire to keep their own kingdom, their goal was division and separation from the Jews of Judah, and they ONLY WAY to stay separate to keep their own kingdom, they had to call the Tprah a strange thing and somehow validate their rejection of Jerusalem. The kings of Israel could not possibly afford it's people to believe in the Sabbaths and feasts of Jerusalem because if they didn't change the fessts, the people of Israel would continue pilgrimages to Jerusalem 3 times a year, and this under the authority of Judah.
Naturally, the kingdom of Ephraim had to build it's own holy city, it's own royal palace, and it's own worship system to be carried out at Dan and Bethel. Naturally they had to bring down the holy city, it's feasts and it's priesthood to then create their own priesthood of whoever they chose to be priest not chosen by the Lord, and so they did as the nations did.
They simply became Gentile because they called the Torah a strange thing and separated from Judah and married into Gentiles until they became Gentiles.
So God says in Hosea '' Judah still walks with God and Judah is still faithful and the WHOLE WORLD wll stand up and be astonished in the way that I shall save them.''
Then God aays,'' I will utterlly destroy Israel, those ten tribes ARE NOT MY PEOPLE..........GENTILES.
OMG! THEN THE IMPOSSIBLE HAPPENS.............
God promises to take those lawless wannaba Gentiles of the house of Israel and explains how he will use them as seeds to seed all the Gentile Nations, and OF COURSE, as seeds, those ten lost tribes planted and seeded into all the Gentile nations will recieve rain to die and bear fruit in order for God to have a HUGE HARVEST of Gentiles from all the nations he seeded.
A whole kingdom wiped out EXCEPT for the thousands of Israels who escaped over to Judah, to accept Judaism as all Jews practiced. Members from all the ten tribes living amongst Jews after the exile of the ten lost tribes, but this is God's saved remnant as to maintain all tribes of Israel reserved in God's chose people, and so all tribes are present amongst Judah.
Having said that, the GREAT MIRACLE happens when one day God promised to ten lost tribes a GREAT HARVERST, those of the kingdom of Ephraim come back AS GENTILES, AND ONLY AS GENTILES WOULD GOD ACCEPT THEM IN GREAT HORDES AND MULTITUDES, SO MANY GENTILES FOUND THAT THEIR NUMBER DWARFS THE NUMBER OF JUDAH.
God had seeded them to one day have a harvest, but now as they were each and every one a Gentile, God promises to give them a betrothal. This betrothal to all those seeded Gentiles comes with strict requirements, those of the lost Ephraim MUST COME BACK IN TEARS AND GREAT REMORSE.
Those Gentiles havea to come back to respect of the laws, back to Jerusalem to beg repentence and they wonder how they COULD HAVE EVER BECAME A LAW.ESS PAGAN.
They come back crying in tears and regret because they had rejected Jerusalem and all those of Judah for following the ways of God.
The prophets speak of these last days, the GREAT DAY OF JEZREEL.
The prophets show a clear difference between those of Judah and those of the lost kingdom,. In the great day of JEZREEL WHEN HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS are returning in repentence because of their lawlesness and paganism, these people are understandably named,'' THE TENTS OF JOSEPH.''.........BUT ONG, THE TENTS OF JOSEPH BEING FOUND? Wonderful, BUT ALL OF JUDAH HAD JUST BEEN STRENGTHENED BY GOD, not just found, FREAKING STRENGTHENED.
The difference is that when all this happens, it is merely the tents of Joseph HAVE FINALLY BEEN FOUND, and that is the great and huge miracle, and as exiting as this is, I mean to see a whole people ended, a whole nation ended and lost SO FAMOUSLY that the whole world has heard of the ten lost tribes, and in ONE DAY they are found, they all come weeping but ONLY as symbolic females WHO ACCEPT A BETROTHAL TO BE REDEEMED INTO ISRAEL.
The difference between Joseph and David, is that while the tents of Joseph are FINALLY FOUND, they are found because of what God had just done to Judah. Being found is one thing, BEING STRENGTHEND BY GOD IS ANOTHER.
The tents of Joseph are merely found, and Judah is strengthened. The fire of Joseph is but a small little fire, but the fire of Judah is an overhwleming huge fire within all lf Judah and because of how God had changed Judah, the whole world takes notice. God promises to make it EXTREEMLY clear that nobody will boast against Judah, Zechariah says they shall be like God, like the angel who stands before the throne.
All this when something takes place in Syria and the whole world having an epiphany because THEY KNOW WITHOUT ANY DOUBT that what had happened in Syra was by God's own hand, so shocking as to convert the whole world........
So what happens in Syria? The eyes of the world are on Damascus, the eyes of the world are upon the cause of Jerusalem.
RIGHT NOW, RIGHT NOW the world is coming up and preparing for this very thing, right now we are in the position to just about say,'' The nations have come up over the cause of Jerusalem. An evil force had ALREADY risen up in Northern Syria, this evil force names,'' ISIS.'' Isis has been the news of the era and even the President has been hands on an involved in that evil force from Syria and all eyes still watching, still waiting.
So what does this all have to do with modern Christianity?
Modern Christianity is claiming an inheritance in Israel through the promise of betrothal offered in Hosea to convert the world of Gentiles to Judaism, AND THIS TO BECOME ONE WITH JUDAH. ONLY AFTER they convert, and THEN Israel will be gathered together
AFTER the gentiles of the ten lost tribes ALL AGREE TO BECOME SUBMISISVE FEMALES AND TO THEN ACCEPT A BETROTHAL BACK TO THE LAW, IT IS ONLY THEN THEN ARE MADE ONE WITH THE SONS OF GOD OF JUDAH.
This is what modern Christianity is claiming, they are claiming to be co-heirs with Jews of Judah through an offered betrothal of Hosea where God had ended Israel but in the last days, God finds and fills the tents of Joseph with all those submissive virgins who come weeping and gnashing their teeth in regret and remorse because of their wanton desire to denigrate and destroy the laws of Moses, the culture and heritage of God, and more to the point, to SEPARATE FROM JEWS OF JUDAH, TO WHOM THEY ARE BETROTHED IN ORDER TO REDEEM THEM INTO ISRAEL.
This has not taken place as yet, Gentiles who are claiming the inheritance of Israel refuse to weep with remorse about their paganism and lawlessness, AND YET, somehow they think their separation, lawless paganism has gained them an inheritance alongside Judah in a covenant ONLY made for Israel and Judah, ONLY made for Judah and Israel to become one people.
That covenant only made for the lost kingdom or Ephraim as returning Gentiles, and the Jews of Judah, but there are NO MEN in God's plan, there are no men returning Bceause God seeded the ten tribes into the Gentile nations, AND EACH AND EVER ONE CAN ONLY RETURN AS A SUBMISISVE FEMALE TO JUDAH AND THE GOD OF ISRAEL. The goal has alwaya been to make Israel and Judah one person through a marriage, and all those great hordes of Israel MUST return submissive virgins BEFORE they can be made one with Judah, and only then can Israel and Judah be gathered, when Israel is in the same religion as Judah. Female and male.
Modern Christianity takes the kingdom by force as if every single one of them and they grandma is a king.
What does modern Christjanity have to do with Syria?
EVERY THING.
Modern Christianity stands before God, they stand there claiming the land of Joseph, the tents of Joseph CLAIMING TO BE JOSEPH, CLAIMING THAT THEY ARE THE ONES WHO WERE SEEDED INTO THE NATIONS WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM,'' Ye are not my people..''
Modern Christianity CLAIMING THEY ARE THE ONES TO WHOM GOD SAYS,'' NOT MY PEOPLE BECOME THE SONS OF THE LIVING GOD.''
Christians claiming the inheritance ONLY offered to Gentiles who come weeping and repenting of their separation from the Jews of Judah when the point was to make Israel and Judah one people.
Modern Christians claiming the land and the inheritance in Israel BECAUSE they claim to be Ephraim who comes repenting.
All of modern Christianity at their Palace in Shechem going up to Dan and Bethel keeping the same holy days, traditions, the same Anti God, the exact same Anti- JEW, Anti-Judaism, ANTI-CHRIST, LAWLESS PAGAN WAYS OF BABYLON.
Modern Christianity BOASTING againgst Judah and Judaism, they haven't came weeping in repentance, and yet they claim to be the lost tents of Joseph deserving an inheritance in Israel
Modern Christianity ABSOLUTELY denies the authority of JUDAH. Modern Christianity claiming a covenant made for Ephraim and Judah refusing to become aubmisive to God or Judah, and more to the point,'' THE HEADQUARTERS OF GOD, JERUSALEM.''
Where is the head and authority of modern Christianity in which they have set up their hordes against the people and God of Jerusalem?
DAMASCUS.
Just opinions, just throwing some thoughts around.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 12-12-2019 at 03:52 PM..
Very interesting. It is not usually the tendency of orthodox Jews (including me) to inquire after such things, but if there is one better educated than I, I would be interested to hear comments.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
