Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'll tell you what. You keep your beliefs, we Jews will keep our own. Just please don't kill us for thinking the way we do. Thankfully, the 2,000 year history of Chrstians killing Jews for not believing in jesus has abated since the 1960s.
Then when it all plays out in the end, we can see who is right. (And ps, all you Evangelicals, please keep those dollars rolling into Israel. You're her greatest financial supporter, and even though you say at end times you'll kill every Jew who doesn't convert, we can wink and nod at that since we know it won't really play out that way, and still accept your money).
No, they reject the Jesus character because he did not fulfil the prophecies for the Messiah.
He did not build the third temple. -This prophecy will be fulfilled in the last days (Zch 1:12-2:13 - Rev 11:2)
He did not regather all the Jews of the world back to Israel. - Since the 1947 restoration of Israel, the Jews returned by the millions to Israel from Ethiopia, Russia and elsewhere (Ez 37:21, Jer 16:14-15, Is 43:6, Jer 23:7-8, Zch 38)
He did not usher in world peace.
-Jesus came to bring true peace to the hearts of men, and bring men into His kingdom; not false 'worldly' peace (Jer 6:14, Ez. 7:25, Ez 13:10)
He did not cause all people to believe in the one 'god' of Israel. - Jesus caused all people (Jews and the world) who were willing to believe, to believe in the one true God of Israel and the World.
He was not of the Davidic line because he had no mortal father. - Both Mary and Joseph were of the line of David (and of the root of Jesse) (Is 11:1-2, Ps. 132:11-12 -- Mat. 1:6, Mat 3:16, Mat. 1:1, Jn 7:42, Mat. 21:9, Lk 3:31, Acts 2:29-32, etc.) -- While Christ had no earthly biological father, Joseph was his 'earthly' father.
He was not a military leader. - Neither God or Jesus are military leaders; they rule the hearts of men
He did not cause all Jews to obey the Torah.
- Jesus came to move the law from the Torah to the heart. The law, in fact, reveals that no man can perfectly keep it; ... a teacher that points men to the Savior, Jesus Christ. God seeks those who obey Him from their heart; ... not just rules and laws.
The Messiah is to be a normal man, born of normal parents via a normal birth. (????) - There is nothing normal or ordinary about the Messiah and Savior of the world ---Jesus lived a perfect earthly life (not a normal, fallen life - which no normal, earthly man could live.) .
- He is not to be a god or god-like. (???) - Both He (and we, his followers) are to live in the power and Spirit of God; "flesh is flesh and Spirit is Spirit"
None of the above happened. That's why Jews reject the Jesus character. - All of the above happened, but, not as expected ... which is why, "He came unto his own, but, His own received Him not" ---rejecting their long-awaited Messiah ... who, Himself came as a Jew.
The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)
Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4) - ?? Not what Is. 2:4 says; Still,Jesus is king and leaders of all nations do look to Him for guidance.
The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)
He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via Solomon (1 Chronicles 22:8-10, 2 Chronicles 7:18) - Above
The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)
Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)
He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)
There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11) -- That is not a prophecy for this world, but of God's eternal Kingdom -- and it pertains to all "true Jews", not just those who are circumcised in the flesh.
Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5) -- Nations (and Israel) will bow and recognize the wrongs they have done to each other, and towards God "As I live, saith the Lord, to me every knee shall bow, And every tongue shall confess to God."
The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23) -- When the Jews turn to God for Spiritual guidance, the world will follow God ... along with the Jews, who are moving in the same direction.
The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55) -- They have been restored since the nation of Israel was restored following the destruction by the Romans in 70AD
Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9) -- At Christ's return, following the fulfillment of Ez 39:9 -- not yet.
The Temple will be rebuilt resuming many of the suspended mitzvot (Ezekiel 40) (above)
He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)
Jews will know the Torah without study (Jeremiah 31:33)[3] -- Not what it says -- It says that God will write His law in the hearts of all men -- which he has, and does.
He will give you all the worthy desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4) -- God created and satisfies the desires of the human heart ... in all who desire and seek Him, --- not worldly desires.
He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9) -- Israel was barren and laid waste for almost 2000 years and is today abundant anf fruitful (Have you ever traveled throughout Israel?)
None of this happened at the alleged time of Jesus. We serve a risen and living Lord, not a dead man in a tomb, as you seem to 'allege' --
...and it's no good saying that it will happen 'when he comes back'. NOWHERE in Jewish scripture does it say that the Messiah will come, be killed and return at some unspecified future date. In fact, it says quite the opposite - according to the Jewish prophecies, their Messiah will come once, only once and he will complete all the above tasks when he comes. The 'second coming' is a purely Christian invention.
-- Many prophetic scriptures speak to the coming, crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. (Zch 9:9, Ps. 2:2, Ps. 69:4, Ps. 41:9, Zech 11:12, Zech 13:6-7, Ps. 22:16, Ps. 22:7, Is. 53:5, Is. 53:9, Ps. 16:9, Is. 53:12, Ps. 22:1, Ps. 22:18, Zech 12:10) -- Jesus Christ, the Messiah, clarified the meaning of these and other scripture and pointed to His own return in the last day-
The fact that Jesus Christ fulfilled hundreds of specific Messianic prophecies (of God's Word ... not "Jewish scriptures") is in itself all the 'proof' most, who are willing and able to see, need to accept His Lordship. But, we must be willing to allow God "whose ways are higher than man's ways") to be God ... without insisting that man's imperfect expectations be exalted above both God and His Word. God always does exactly what He says He will do, but, not always exactly as people expect it to happen.
-- Many prophetic scriptures speak to the coming, crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. (Zch 9:9, Ps. 2:2, Ps. 69:4, Ps. 41:9, Zech 11:12, Zech 13:6-7, Ps. 22:16, Ps. 22:7, Is. 53:5, Is. 53:9, Ps. 16:9, Is. 53:12, Ps. 22:1, Ps. 22:18, Zech 12:10) -- Jesus Christ, the Messiah, clarified the meaning of these and other scripture and pointed to His own return in the last day
That may be true in the Christian mistranslation of the Jewish Bible, but it is not true in the Jewish Bible.
[b]The fact that Jesus Christ fulfilled hundreds of specific Messianic prophecies (of God's Word ... not "Jewish scriptures") is in itself all the 'proof' most, who are willing and able to see, need to accept His Lordship.
Your man-god did not fulfil even one Messianic prophecy....not one.
Your man-god did not fulfil even one Messianic prophecy....not one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fillmont
I enjoyed how some of the explanations for lack of fulfillment were basically new age nonsense.
"Messiah will be a military leader. And he was. He was the military leader of our hearts."
Given how grossly distorted and wrong the OT is about the nature, acts and motives of God . . . why would you expect them to have correctly conveyed the expectations of the Messiah.
Given how grossly distorted and wrong the OT is about the nature, acts and motives of God . . . why would you expect them to have correctly conveyed the expectations of the Messiah.
Because, like it or not, it came first. Christians then went and changed it. It's the same thing Muhammed did - took earlier works, changed it all around, and said "here, this is what god really meant." Forgive me for not believing a word any of them claim.
(of course, the Torah is full of revisions too, since the whole thing is the work of men over centuries, and not at all relevant to anything in the real world.)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
