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5. Neil, for all you know, those "Ultra Orthodox men" you saw on the plane were not even Jews. There's no way to associate their behavior with an entire community. And if they were indeed Jews, you have an obligation to be dan l'kaf z'chus (give them the benefit of the doubt) before making any assumptions.
The one in front of me spoke Yiddish into a personal cellphone before and after the flight.. Who else is going to speak Yiddish (and I already speak some Russian, Polish and German so I know the difference)?
So tell me what concerns you about seeing an Orthodox Jew watching the television in front of him on an airplane. Would you have preferred he not watch it?
6. And finally Jazzymom, I am making every attempt to translate in parenthesis the Hebrew words I use in my posts. I type like I talk, but I'm trying to help you all with the translations where possible. There are many Hebrew and Yiddish words/concpets that simply better explain the idea at hand than the English possibly could. I think this critisizm of yours is unwarranted.
theflipflop, one could write extensively about the psychology behind such affected speech. It is not a pleasant narrative. You might wish to start focussing on honest and effective communication.
theflipflop, one could write extensively about the psychology behind such affected speech. It is not a pleasant narrative. You might wish to start focussing on honest and effective communication.
I have no idea what you mean? Can you give me some parenthesis on your statement above?
1. I have no desire to "impose" geneder separation on all Jews. The whole idea has no traction in the secular community, nor does it seem to make any sense to non observant Jews (obviously from the comments above). But would you take away my right to have gender separation in as many forums as possible?
yes, in the public sector you have no right to enforce your religious beliefs and practices on people.
2. Sometimes we create chumras (stringencies) to account for the lowest common denominator. For sure most frum men and women have plenty of self control. But there are those who do not. We try not to put stumbling blocks in front of blind people whenever possible. That's just love of our fellow Yid.
Those who have no self control need to stay home. The women of the world are not responsible for their inability to have self control. And please I am a JEW, not a yid.
3. Jayhawker, you seem to have missed the memo that separation has been a constant theme for the Jews for the last 3,000 years. We keep kashrus, for example, because the Torah tells us to. But the sages have interpreted that to mean that Hashem wants us Jews to be separate from the nations, so that we might avoid intermarriage, idol worship and the sexual immorality that goes along with associating with non-Jews. Sure, in the real world, we cannotfully fully separate ourselves from them. But we can indeed do our small part where possible.
I refuse to live in a ghetto, and I refuse not to be a part of society. I believe that we to get along with all people. I don't separate people into Jew and Non Jew. I am a part of the world community.
4. If I were to hug a woman at an oneg, I would indeed be engaging in a disgusting and offensive act that would be severely frowned upon by my fellow Jews. But I do recognize that you all have different standards in your non Torah Observant communities, and most hold by the standards in their particular communities. I get that.
Again not disgusting and offensive, but your view.
5. Neil, for all you know, those "Ultra Orthodox men" you saw on the plane were not even Jews. There's no way to associate their behavior with an entire community. And if they were indeed Jews, you have an obligation to be dan l'kaf z'chus (give them the benefit of the doubt) before making any assumptions.
Well again why would you question their Jewishness?
6. And finally Jazzymom, I am making every attempt to translate in parenthesis the Hebrew words I use in my posts. I type like I talk, but I'm trying to help you all with the translations where possible. There are many Hebrew and Yiddish words/concpets that simply better explain the idea at hand than the English possibly could. I think this critisizm of yours is unwarranted.
Then talk, don't talk down to us..... We are intelligent people and not all here are Jewish. Please just speak in ENGLISH. My criticism is not unwarranted and I have not been the only one to say so. You are separating yourself as somehow superior. No other Jew here does this. Many of us know Hebrew and Yiddish, but we don't sprinkle it in our messages because we recognize that not all do.
If the TOS allowed me to type my responses in Hebrew or Yiddish, it would be so much easier to explain. I could then use google translate for the rest of the users to comprehend. Please stop all these attacks.
1. I have no desire to "impose" geneder separation on all Jews. The whole idea has no traction in the secular community, nor does it seem to make any sense to non observant Jews (obviously from the comments above). But would you take away my right to have gender separation in as many forums as possible?
yes, in the public sector you have no right to enforce your religious beliefs and practices on people.
So then what gives you the right to enforce your secular beliefs and practices in public? I want to understandthis. YOU have thge right to enforce your standards, but I do not?
2. Sometimes we create chumras (stringencies) to account for the lowest common denominator. For sure most frum men and women have plenty of self control. But there are those who do not. We try not to put stumbling blocks in front of blind people whenever possible. That's just love of our fellow Yid.
Those who have no self control need to stay home. The women of the world are not responsible for their inability to have self control. And please I am a JEW, not a yid.
So women are permitted a lack of self control? I don't understand you?
3. Jayhawker, you seem to have missed the memo that separation has been a constant theme for the Jews for the last 3,000 years. We keep kashrus, for example, because the Torah tells us to. But the sages have interpreted that to mean that Hashem wants us Jews to be separate from the nations, so that we might avoid intermarriage, idol worship and the sexual immorality that goes along with associating with non-Jews. Sure, in the real world, we cannotfully fully separate ourselves from them. But we can indeed do our small part where possible.
I refuse to live in a ghetto, and I refuse not to be a part of society. I believe that we to get along with all people. I don't separate people into Jew and Non Jew. I am a part of the world community.
Statistics prove that separating oneself from the nations reduces interfaith marriage by huge numbers. And interfaith marriage is the current holocaust us Jews are facing as a nation. If one refrains from redefining the Torah's view on what is required to be Jewish, it's clear that interfaith marriage is going to wipe out entire groups of Jews. It's not wrong to want all Jews to be preserved and remain Jewish, no matter their level of observance. If the non Observant communities refuse to save themselves from this holocaust, I'm not sure I can be of any assistance.
4. If I were to hug a woman at an oneg, I would indeed be engaging in a disgusting and offensive act that would be severely frowned upon by my fellow Jews. But I do recognize that you all have different standards in your non Torah Observant communities, and most hold by the standards in their particular communities. I get that.
Again not disgusting and offensive, but your view.
I was clear that this view applies in my world, but perhaps not in yours.
5. Neil, for all you know, those "Ultra Orthodox men" you saw on the plane were not even Jews. There's no way to associate their behavior with an entire community. And if they were indeed Jews, you have an obligation to be dan l'kaf z'chus (give them the benefit of the doubt) before making any assumptions.
Well again why would you question their Jewishness?
6. And finally Jazzymom, I am making every attempt to translate in parenthesis the Hebrew words I use in my posts. I type like I talk, but I'm trying to help you all with the translations where possible. There are many Hebrew and Yiddish words/concpets that simply better explain the idea at hand than the English possibly could. I think this critisizm of yours is unwarranted.
Then talk, don't talk down to us..... We are intelligent people and not all here are Jewish. Please just speak in ENGLISH. My criticism is not unwarranted and I have not been the only one to say so. You are separating yourself as somehow superior. No other Jew here does this. Many of us know Hebrew and Yiddish, but we don't sprinkle it in our messages because we recognize that not all do.
Oye Vey! Just curious, since you talk so much about inclusion and diversity. Do you think English should be the official language of America? And that all Hispanics should be compelled to speak English and forbidden to speak their native tongue? Or does this only apply to Orthodox Jews?
If the TOS allowed me to type my responses in Hebrew or Yiddish, it would be so much easier to explain. I could then use google translate for the rest of the users to comprehend. Please stop all these attacks.
Less than 1% of the words I use in my posts are of a foreign language. Show me where that violates the terms of service here at C-D. Am I to report you to the Mods if i see you use the word "tortilla" in one of your posts? First I'm told to define my words. Then I'm told what words I can use, and which ones I cannot.
And you must be specific when you say I have attacked. I need examples, if I am to refrain. Are you all unable to see that you have formed a gang to constantly follow every word in every one of my posts and constantly make accusations against me? I wonder if there's a single poster here at C-D who has faced the vitriolic stalking that I have. And many of you are Jews! You all should be ashamed of yourselves.
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