Chief Rabbinate doesn't trust U.S. Orthodox rabbis (women, witness, marry)
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Some American Jews move to Israel. They try to get married. The Rabbinate asks for extensive proof stretching back generations that show that each spouse's matrilineal line is pure (no non-Jews along the way). They present a letter from an American Orthodox rabbi that they and their mothers are indeed Jewish. The Rabbinate does not trust the rabbi's credentials and rejects them as possible non-Jews. Previously this had only happened to a couple who listed Rabbi Avi Weiss as their rabbi, a rabbi known for obeying halacha (Jewish law) as all Orthodox Jews should, but bending the mesorah (Jewish tradition) by ordaining women as rabbis and being open to non-Orthodox and non-Jewish people. But now a more mainstream rabbi, Rabbi Scot Berman, with less controversial opinions, was rejected. The reason? Because he isn't the head of a congregation.
What does this mean for the future of Israel? The Chief Rabbinate, which all Jews in Israel have to go through to get married, divorced, converted, and buried, is getting more and more machmir (stringent) on everything. The charedim (ultra-Orthodox, self-anointed "Torah Jews"), at least those who are okay with the State of Israel existing, think this is a good thing because the Rabbinate is getting closer to their version of Torah and their hashkafa (Jewish outlook / philosophy). But is this going to encourage the majority of Israelis and non-Israeli Jews who are NOT religiously observant to come back to the Torah, or will it push them away?
Diaspora religious establishment concerned Israeli body does not fully trust Orthodox rabbis, institutions outside the country.
We all know that the Chief Rabbinate of Israel doesn't view Reform and Conservative Judaism as Judaism as all, and converts through these movements are viewed as complete non-Jews in Israel except for the purposes of aliyah (Jewish immigration). But now American Orthodox Judaism is being challenged. Who is Orthodox enough to be a Torah Jew? Apparently not RCA (Rabbinical Council of America) Orthodox rabbis.
This is not new that the Israeli Chief Rabbinate does not trust American Orthodox rabbis. Even Orthodox conversions done is the USA can be challenged by the Israeli Rabbinate Authority when one tries to get married there.
I think as Rabbi Weiss has begun to move his modern orthodox kehilla away from Torah, there are naturally going to be consequences. He started this nonsense, and interestingly, the Chief Rabbinate has all the power.
And although Rabbi Weiss is a member of the RCA, he is far far outside the scope of Torah Judaism in America. He's basically a Conservative Jew.
Well this would be another reason to live in the U.S. as opposed to a theocracy. To me this basically seems like a huge power struggle and pissing contest. That being said, as TFF said, the Chief Rabbinate is in charge and if you know what their standards are for what it means to be Jewish and don't follow them you can't really go cry when they say you're not part of the club.
As for what it means for the future of Israel, I think there is going to come a time when enough secular Israelis will become vocal enough and aren't going to deal with the Chief Rabbinate anymore and kick em to the curb.
Here's another article with a different perspective.
Well this would be another reason to live in the U.S. as opposed to a theocracy. To me this basically seems like a huge power struggle and pissing contest. That being said, as TFF said, the Chief Rabbinate is in charge and if you know what their standards are for what it means to be Jewish and don't follow them you can't really go cry when they say you're not part of the club.
As for what it means for the future of Israel, I think there is going to come a time when enough secular Israelis will become vocal enough and aren't going to deal with the Chief Rabbinate anymore and kick em to the curb.
Here's another article with a different perspective.
There are secular Israelis that go to Cyprus to get married if they don't want to have a religious wedding.
But the issue is more political than religious. Since the Israeli Government is a coalition government, the religious parties are usually needed to have a strong majority in the Israeli Parliament to form that coalition. So the religious parties ask for religious laws to be enacted as part of the coalition agreement even though the majority of Israelis are secular.
I think as Rabbi Weiss has begun to move his modern orthodox kehilla away from Torah, there are naturally going to be consequences. He started this nonsense, and interestingly, the Chief Rabbinate has all the power.
And although Rabbi Weiss is a member of the RCA, he is far far outside the scope of Torah Judaism in America. He's basically a Conservative Jew.
There you have it, everyone. From an ultra-Orthodox point of view, it is not enough to be Modern Orthodox and observing halacha (Jewish law) to be considered a Torah-observant Jew. You have to be ultra-Orthodox, otherwise you may as well be Conservative or Reform. If your get (divorce papers) was witnessed by an Orthodox Torah-observant rabbi who is too liberal, and you remarry and have children, your kids will be mamzerim (illegitimate, ineligible to marry other Jews) to the Jews of "Torah Judaism". If you convert to Judaism with such a rabbi, to a self-described "Torah Jew" you might as well have converted to Messianic Judaism or Islam.
The RCA is an ORTHODOX rabbinical group. They only allow Orthodox rabbis to join. Rabbi Avi Weiss does not advocate violating halacha, even if you want to argue that he is going against the mesorah (Jewish tradition) by allowing women to be rabbis and talking to non-Orthodox Jewish congregations. To say that he is far far outside the scope of Torah Judaism and that he is basically a Conservative Jew is being motzi shem ra (spreading lies about another Jew, even worse than lashon hara).
Jews by choice and prospective converts, keep this in mind the next time an Orthodox Jew tells you that only Orthodox conversions are "universally accepted". This is incorrect. There is NO such thing as a universally accepted conversion, Orthodox or not. A self-anointed "Torah Jew" will only accept your conversion if you and the rabbis who converted you are at least as frum (observant) as the Torah Jew is. I'm sure that if you converted with theflipflop's rabbi there will be rabbis and communities in Israel such as Meah Shearim and Bnei Brak who will view your conversion as invalid because people in theflipflop's community use the Internet and smartphones, or drink chalav stam. The situation will only get worse as the Chief Rabbinate gets more charedi (ultra-Orthodox), dragging American Orthodox rabbis along because they want to be seen as legitimate by the Rabbinate. The only universally accepted definition of Jewishness is whether your mom (and her mom, and her mom, etc.) is Jewish.
There are secular Israelis that go to Cyprus to get married if they don't want to have a religious wedding.
But the issue is more political than religious. Since the Israeli Government is a coalition government, the religious parties are usually needed to have a strong majority in the Israeli Parliament to form that coalition. So the religious parties ask for religious laws to be enacted as part of the coalition agreement even though the majority of Israelis are secular.
I know Israel is a coalition government, but other than that I have very little knowledge of Israeli politics. I was under the impression that the religious parties represented a relatively small portion of the Israeli population? If that is the case, why would secular Israelis need those parties if it's not a big majority? Is it because they're a very vocal minority and have big voter turn out?
If I recall, there was quite a bit of fuss in the last election over the ultra orthodox who were not serving in the military like the rest of the country, but I don't remember how that played out.
There you have it, everyone. From an ultra-Orthodox point of view, it is not enough to be Modern Orthodox and observing halacha (Jewish law) to be considered a Torah-observant Jew. You have to be ultra-Orthodox, otherwise you may as well be Conservative or Reform. If your get (divorce papers) was witnessed by an Orthodox Torah-observant rabbi who is too liberal, and you remarry and have children, your kids will be mamzerim (illegitimate, ineligible to marry other Jews) to the Jews of "Torah Judaism". If you convert to Judaism with such a rabbi, to a self-described "Torah Jew" you might as well have converted to Messianic Judaism or Islam.
The RCA is an ORTHODOX rabbinical group. They only allow Orthodox rabbis to join. Rabbi Avi Weiss does not advocate violating halacha, even if you want to argue that he is going against the mesorah (Jewish tradition) by allowing women to be rabbis and talking to non-Orthodox Jewish congregations. To say that he is far far outside the scope of Torah Judaism and that he is basically a Conservative Jew is being motzi shem ra (spreading lies about another Jew, even worse than lashon hara).
Jews by choice and prospective converts, keep this in mind the next time an Orthodox Jew tells you that only Orthodox conversions are "universally accepted". This is incorrect. There is NO such thing as a universally accepted conversion, Orthodox or not. A self-anointed "Torah Jew" will only accept your conversion if you and the rabbis who converted you are at least as frum (observant) as the Torah Jew is. I'm sure that if you converted with theflipflop's rabbi there will be rabbis and communities in Israel such as Meah Shearim and Bnei Brak who will view your conversion as invalid because people in theflipflop's community use the Internet and smartphones, or drink chalav stam. The situation will only get worse as the Chief Rabbinate gets more charedi (ultra-Orthodox), dragging American Orthodox rabbis along because they want to be seen as legitimate by the Rabbinate. The only universally accepted definition of Jewishness is whether your mom (and her mom, and her mom, etc.) is Jewish.
Ok people, mark your calendars as I'm almost speechless. I have only one thing to say:
Usario, your post is mostly correct about "not frum enough". But I'm not sure I understand the chidush. You are right that I would feel out of place in measharim or bnei berak. Who cares? I don't go there. I don't care if I'm not frum enough for them. Why are you so bent out of shape?
You read that as him being bent out of shape? Seemed quite level headed and calm to me.
Also, I didn't take his post to mean that you need to feel "in place" in Bnei Barak, it was that those people would not accept your frumness and criticize you because you don't have the same level of observance as they do. I bet that wouldn't make you feel too great. Similarly, maybe you shouldn't be criticizing reform and conservatives 24/7 and hollering about how we're going to baptize our grandchildren.
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