Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Judaism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-15-2015, 08:33 PM
 
22,002 posts, read 19,112,807 times
Reputation: 18133

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
while males sit back and read books.
the Torah itself tells us why this is necessary for some Torah scholars to study full time.
we all benefit from this
how can you not see that Issachar and Zebulon work together to the benefit of all of us?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-15-2015, 08:35 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,941,988 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
So according to your numbers, the non working chareidi men only make up 2.5% of the entire population of Israel. I'm struggling to understand the problem. I bet there are more than 2.5% of left handed men in Israel who don't work either, but there isn't a ground swell of hateful articles written about left handed Jews with the chutzpah to not work.
What about left handed men?...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-15-2015, 08:42 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,662,949 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
the Torah itself tells us why this is necessary for some Torah scholars to study full time.
...
"Some" is the key word and not "All" as it's being done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-15-2015, 08:58 PM
 
2,391 posts, read 5,032,380 times
Reputation: 931
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
also it is a very big mitzvah to give tzedakah to Torah..
I don't believe in supporting someone who is capable of working. To me, it's like supporting the homeless who will never want to achieve life on their own. You and everyone works hard for their money.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-15-2015, 09:21 PM
 
22,002 posts, read 19,112,807 times
Reputation: 18133
Quote:
Originally Posted by veggienut View Post
I don't believe in supporting someone who is capable of working. To me, it's like supporting the homeless who will never want to achieve life on their own. You and everyone works hard for their money.
as a Jew I know that the parnassah i receive comes from Hashem

it belongs all to Hashem and Hashem is generous enough to give me 80-90% of it for my own use, only asking for 10-20% of it to be returned through tzedakah. we are to give tzedakah so that we recognize Hashem in this process. Torah scholars draw down blessing for all yidden and for the entire planet.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 06-15-2015 at 09:32 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-15-2015, 09:30 PM
 
22,002 posts, read 19,112,807 times
Reputation: 18133
Quote:
Originally Posted by veggienut View Post
I don't believe in supporting someone who is capable of working. To me, it's like supporting the homeless who will never want to achieve life on their own. You and everyone works hard for their money.
do you then not see the value and purpose in giving tzedakah?
for a Jew, it's not about what you want, it's about what Hashem wants. Hashem says give, so we give.
to call a Torah scholar someone who never achieves...oy vey

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 06-15-2015 at 09:42 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-15-2015, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
938 posts, read 1,511,578 times
Reputation: 777
"כל תורה שאין עמה מלאכה סופה בטלה וגוררת עוון"

Or in English:

"Torah that is not accompanied by a worldly trade will in the end amount to nothing and will lead one into sin" - Mishnah Avot, chapter 2; Rulings on this basis are found in Rambam's Mishneh Torah, “Laws Concerning Torah Study”, chapter 10, and in Shulhan Arukh, Orah Hayyim #157.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-16-2015, 12:46 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,662,949 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
as a Jew I know that the parnassah i receive comes from Hashem

it belongs all to Hashem and Hashem is generous enough to give me 80-90% of it for my own use, only asking for 10-20% of it to be returned through tzedakah. we are to give tzedakah so that we recognize Hashem in this process. Torah scholars draw down blessing for all yidden and for the entire planet.

What a way to circumvent the comment by you using the word parnassah. Do you have a actual job where you work and actually earn money or do you live on the donations of others and then give some of it to others as tzedakah so they can say it's parnassah too?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-16-2015, 12:54 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,662,949 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
do you then not see the value and purpose in giving tzedakah?
for a Jew, it's not about what you want, it's about what Hashem wants. Hashem says give, so we give.
to call a Torah scholar someone who never achieves...

Not everyone is a Torah scholar and not everyone should take tzedakah to live like one. Being FFM does not give one that right.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-16-2015, 01:11 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,662,949 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
the Torah itself tells us why this is necessary for some Torah scholars to study full time.
You need to go and read the Talmud if you ever have and not twist it in such a way that it does not resemble the truth.

Quote:
Rambam's Position

In his commentary to the Mishna, Rambam comes out strongly against those who study Torah and demand that the community support them. He brings numerous examples of leading Torah authorities from the period of the Mishnah who would earn their own living and never even considered having the community support them....
Yeshiva.co - Torah Study or Profession?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Judaism

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:53 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top