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I've always been uncomfortable using Almond Milk or other nut milk as a dairy substitute when serving meat so I don't. There are brands that are dairy free but I feel like I'm "cheating" since it looks like and is used the same as dairy milk.
I've read opinions from different rabbis that say that since non-dairy products are ubiquitous these days, no one will assume it's dairy milk being served so it's ok.
Personal history and memories of having the separation makes my stomach turn at the thought of milk being poured onto or used in my meat dishes.
I've always been uncomfortable using Almond Milk or other nut milk as a dairy substitute when serving meat so I don't. There are brands that are dairy free but I feel like I'm "cheating" since it looks like and is used the same as dairy milk.
I've read opinions from different rabbis that say that since non-dairy products are ubiquitous these days, no one will assume it's dairy milk being served so it's ok.
Personal history and memories of having the separation makes my stomach turn at the thought of milk being poured onto or used in my meat dishes.
Anyone else have this problem?
That is interesting. Not Jewish myself, so I can't answer your direct question, but when I worked for a Hasidic-owned company and we had our holiday gathering at a kosher steakhouse, we were served non-dairy ice cream for dessert. My employers were observant, but that seemed to be OK with them.
I think there is a teaching that we're not supposed to give the appearance of breaking halacha, even if using a non-dairy milk substitute with meat is technically "okay."
Rosends would know the answer to this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
That is interesting. Not Jewish myself, so I can't answer your direct question, but when I worked for a Hasidic-owned company and we had our holiday gathering at a kosher steakhouse, we were served non-dairy ice cream for dessert. My employers were observant, but that seemed to be OK with them.
I'm going to guess that the kosher steakhouse probably had something written in their menus to specifically point out that the ice cream was non-dairy, so everyone would already be aware of this and it would be obvious that no one was breaking halacha?
I can't remember if Ben's Kosher Restaurant chain ever included non-dairy ice cream on their menus. Maybe Coney will know?
There is a law which discusses eating fish blood. As eating animal blood is forbidden, there was concern that if one had fish blood at the table, a passer-by might mistakenly think that one is eating animal blood (which would lead to one or both of the following conclusions: 1. that as the eater is a religious Jew, animal blood is actually OK 2. that the person is a sinner, flouting Jewish law).
Judaism has a concern for what is called "mar'it ayin" that which is seen by the eye. In a situation where one is doing something permissible, but it could be misunderstood as something forbidden, the rabbis feared the wrong impression and forbade certain of these misinterpretable actions.
These concerns regarding food are not new and have been more and more in the forefront since non-dairy creamer and margarine became popular years ago.
When it comes to almond milk (and fake ice cream or cheese, which I have been enjoying recently), the ancient law already accounts for these. Check here for some interesting laws and sources which permit them.
I think there is a teaching that we're not supposed to give the appearance of breaking halacha, even if using a non-dairy milk substitute with meat is technically "okay."
Rosends would know the answer to this.
I'm going to guess that the kosher steakhouse probably had something written in their menus to specifically point out that the ice cream was non-dairy, so everyone would already be aware of this and it would be obvious that no one was breaking halacha?
I can't remember if Ben's Kosher Restaurant chain ever included non-dairy ice cream on their menus. Maybe Coney will know?
Oh, I don't think my employer would have remotely considered having the company dinner at that steakhouse if there was a drop of dairy in the place. These were Satmar holding a dinner at a Boro Park steakhouse. They lived in the neighborhood and probably knew the restaurant owner well.
Part of the reason they hired me, a goy, is because my boss could not meet a lot of potential clients for lunches or attend events where non-kosher food was served, as is normal the NYC engineering industry, but I could go on his behalf. There was an engineer in the office, orthodox but not Satmar, who told me he got lectured regularly because they knew he went to the Italian pizza place instead of the kosher one.
Besides, there is the most wonderful place right in the neighborhood called The Ice Cream House that makes kosher ice creams, including non-dairy, which probably supplied the dessert. All sorts of flavors you don't get anywhere else. I hope someday to make a trip back to the neighborhood to visit Green-Wood Cemetery, which is nearby, and get the green-apple sherbet ice cream there again.
^I really doubt the Ice Cream House supplied the dessert to the Steakhouse. They would have to have separate facilities/buildings to keep the dairy ice cream separated from the non-dairy substitute. Once a food item is prepared with a dairy utensil, it becomes "dairy" and the utensils would have to be washed completely separate.
Rachel, I never bothered looking very hard at the desserts at Ben's. I'll bet they serve coffee at the table with a non-dairy creamer. Remember, Ben's is not glatt.
^I really doubt the Ice Cream House supplied the dessert to the Steakhouse. They would have to have separate facilities/buildings to keep the dairy ice cream separated from the non-dairy substitute. Once a food item is prepared with a dairy utensil, it becomes "dairy" and the utensils would have to be washed completely separate.
Rachel, I never bothered looking very hard at the desserts at Ben's. I'll bet they serve coffee at the table with a non-dairy creamer. Remember, Ben's is not glatt.
Good point. Didn't think of that. Unless of course the Ice Cream House does keep the utensils separate, but I really don't know.
...Part of the reason they hired me, a goy, is because my boss could not meet a lot of potential clients for lunches or attend events where non-kosher food was served, as is normal the NYC engineering industry, but I could go on his behalf...
Sweet deal! Especially if the boss was not only paying for your time, but your lunch as well!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
Someday when COVID is over, Rachel, we're going to meet for ice cream.
Thank you for all the comments. My grandmother OBM is in my head. So, no look-alike dairy products for me when using her meat dishes even if they are certified non-dairy.
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I remember my grandparents using Coffee Mate powder which is supposed to be none dairy in their coffee. Beyond that my Grandmother was not a cook anyone would want to emulate so I don't know what she added in the mashed potatoes...
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