Was Israel Given To The Jews By God? (believe, Bible, Christians)

[MontanaGuy]

First off, this isn't meant to be in any way derogatory towards Jewish people or Israel. I support Israel's right to exist as much as any other nation and I have alot of admiration for the determination of the Israelis. What I'm really getting at is the concept of a God giving a piece of real estate to a particular group of people. I can't think of any other group who was given property at a specific location by God. I'm wondering what others think about this question, particularly Jews.

[kdbrich]

yes


The land is named after their Patriach.

[leorah]

See Genesis 15:18, where G-d promises the land to Abram's descendants. The promise was reiterated in Genesis 26:4 and 28:13 and 35:12, and Exodus 23:30-33. G-d promised to give the descendants of Abraham the land of Canaan, from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates, that Israel's inheritance would encompass the land from the Red Sea to the Sea of the Philistines and from the wilderness to the River Euphrates.

So, yes, the promise was pretty specific.

[HotinAZ]

Originally Posted by leorah

See Genesis 15:18, where G-d promises the land to Abram's descendants. The promise was reiterated in Genesis 26:4 and 28:13 and 35:12, and Exodus 23:30-33. G-d promised to give the descendants of Abraham the land of Canaan, from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates, that Israel's inheritance would encompass the land from the Red Sea to the Sea of the Philistines and from the wilderness to the River Euphrates.

So, yes, the promise was pretty specific.

Then they have alot more land to take!

The promise was to Abraham's Seed,,which wasn't realized until Jesus, as
Jesus IS Israel, as well as all who are part of the Vine.

A declaration given by the Brits left thousands upon thousands of Christians and Muslims homeless on the land they occupied for 1800+ years, even though the declaration forbid this action. This was another example of using the bible for personal gain, kinda like "just wars".

And since I am part Jewish, and am not anti-semetic, I have the right to speak this from a Christian perspective, as well as a humanitarian one..

The Balfour Declaration of 1917 (dated November 2, 1917) was a classified formal statement of policy by the British government stating that the British government "view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people" with the understanding that "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

"Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French...What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct...If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs...As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds."

Mahatma Gandhi

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by MontanaGuy

First off, this isn't meant to be in any way derogatory towards Jewish people or Israel. I support Israel's right to exist as much as any other nation and I have alot of admiration for the determination of the Israelis. What I'm really getting at is the concept of a God giving a piece of real estate to a particular group of people. I can't think of any other group who was given property at a specific location by God. I'm wondering what others think about this question, particularly Jews.

Hi MontanaGuy,

No. Such circumstances are to be found nowhere in the Bible.

Gathering Israel into the Land was written into the Law. Follow the Law and then live in the land.


The book of Hebrews was written to, of all things, Hebrews. Is that usual post from Genesis the latest information? Is chapter 1 of a book enough for any book? Old Yeller is still OK? Bambi's mother is just fine?


It says

Hebrews 8

13 In that He says, “A new covenant, ” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 11

15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

Hebrews 12

2 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Jesus says its the opposite too.

John 4

21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

If its not in Jerusalem then its not in Jerusalem. If you don't believe Jesus you won't believe Paul either (Galatians 4).


Lets just say the Covenant "ready to pass away" means 2000+ years.

Deuteronomy 30

1 “Now it shall come to pass, when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the LORD your God drives you, 2 and you return to the LORD your God and obey His voice, according to all that I command you today, you and your children, with all your heart and with all your soul, 3 that the LORD your God will bring you back from captivity, and have compassion on you, and gather you again from all the nations where the LORD your God has scattered you.

If Israel is being gathered by God then forget Jesus because they don't need him. They can reach the Father on their own. Since many of them are not even religious Jews then forget the Father as well.

[Redisca]

MontanaGuy, consider this from a different angle:

The overwhelming majority of the adherents of the other two Abrahamic religions believe that God gave them the entire world, and that non-believers or believers in something else have no place anywhere on the planet. Jews believe that God gave them only a small portion of the world, leaving the rest to other religions/nations. (Even the Biblical Israel is quite small.) This is an aspect of Judaism that is traditionally presented as bigotted, but in fact, it's much more tolerant than equivalents in some other religions. I am an agnostic, but it seems to me, Judaism is the only one of the three Abrahamic religions that by its very ideology, allows room for freedom of worship, at least by non-Jews. And not just the freedom of worship -- but self-determination anywhere outside of Israel.

[fasterserv]

Considering that a superstitious sect of jews known as Essenes wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls and other fictional works that later were turned into the "BIBLE", then so far as any deluded followers of this mythological sect is concerned, YES!

[Condemned]

Pile of crock!

I agree with the poster above me that in some deluded minds guided by fantasy it is true to them and exists within their personal reality. In the real world, however, anybody can pop up in history and claim God gave them this or that. How does that work? Circular reasoning of course. God gave us this land because our holy book which was given to us by God says so and our God is the only true god there is so this must be true.

[Capt. Dan]

Originally Posted by Condemned

Pile of crock!

I agree with the poster above me that in some deluded minds guided by fantasy it is true to them and exists within their personal reality. In the real world, however, anybody can pop up in history and claim God gave them this or that. How does that work? Circular reasoning of course. God gave us this land because our holy book which was given to us by God say so and our God is the only true god there is so this must be true.

Sort of like the USA "Manifest Destiny?" God says we have the right to remove you and make this place ours?

[Redisca]

Originally Posted by fasterserv

Considering that a superstitious sect of jews known as Essenes wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls and other fictional works that later were turned into the "BIBLE", then so far as any deluded followers of this mythological sect is concerned, YES!

Actually, that's not true. The Essenes flourished from about the 3rd century BC, and most of the Dead Sea Scrolls date from about 150 BC at the earliest. What is deluded is to suggest that Judaism did not exist prior to that time. Archaeological record establishes that Jews existed as a religion and a culture long before then. The Hebrew Bible is much older, too, even if the canonical text was not fully solidified until the 4th century BC. I am also somewhat nonplussed by your suggestion that, uhm, Jews don't really exist. Jews are a people, and in antiquity, they did have a homeland that's in the vicinity of today's Israel. Bringing G-d into this is another matter: but kindly don't insult us by calling us "mythological". Much obliged. This, from a secular Jew.