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I'm curious how you come to this conclusion, if you do not have the benefit of the Oral Torah (and the sages) to help you with your conclusion? You're just a smart guy who knows better than our sages?
7:1 Says: the Hittite, and the Girgas h i t e, and the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
The 7 nations the Israelites are about to encounter in the conquest of Caanan. This is the story of the conquest and what G-d expected.
7:1 Says: the Hittite, and the Girgas h i t e, and the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
The 7 nations the Israelites are about to encounter in the conquest of Caanan. This is the story of the conquest and what G-d expected.
Fine you can quote the text, and it appears you even have an opinion on what it means. But how did you two come to a conclusion on what it means? It does not appear (and please correct me if I'm wrong) you used any Jewish sources as a guide. So what was your guide? Your confidence in yourself? A non-Jewish source? Pop culture? Secular academia?
Really, I'm just curious how one knows what anything in the Torah means if they refuse to use the benefit of 2,000 years worth of Jewish commentary?
Deuteronomy 7:3 does not refer to non-Jewry in general but, rather, to seven very specific peoples occupying "the land that you are about to enter and possess."
I'm curious how you come to this conclusion, if you do not have the benefit of the Oral Torah (and the sages) to help you with your conclusion? You're just a smart guy who knows better than our sages?
Feel free to show me where our sages interpret 7:3 differently. Until then, I'm content with reading 7:3 informed by 7:1-2. You?
Feel free to show me where our sages interpret 7:3 differently. Until then, I'm content with reading 7:3 informed by 7:1-2. You?
So you're going to dodge the question and instead send me on a quest for sources to try to derail the question?
Let's try it this way. How about I agree with you on the passage in question and say it's no proof to my point.
Now, what say you on my question for you:
Quote:
But how did you two come to a conclusion on what it means? It does not appear (and please correct me if I'm wrong) you used any Jewish sources as a guide. So what was your guide? Your confidence in yourself? A non-Jewish source? Pop culture? Secular academia?
Really, I'm just curious how one knows what anything in the Torah means if they refuse to use the benefit of 2,000 years worth of Jewish commentary?
Or perhaps you have already answered my question when you said you would use the two previous pesukim as your proof, in other words, your source is yourself.
Do you realize by using yourself as final proof on any halachic matter, you have thrown out the Jewish mesorah. Another way to say that, is that you are now praying to the god of yourself and are denying the Al-Mighty Himself. Just one quick qualifying point for anybody else following along - that's not a classicly Jewish approach to anything, to declare oneself as superior to one's forefathers and religious sages.
So you're going to dodge the question and instead send me on a quest for sources to try to derail the question?
Let's try it this way. How about I agree with you on the passage in question and say it's no proof to my point.
Now, what say you on my question for you:
Or perhaps you have already answered my question when you said you would use the two previous pesukim as your proof, in other words, your source is yourself.
Do you realize by using yourself as final proof on any halachic matter, you have thrown out the Jewish mesorah. Another way to say that, is that you are now praying to the god of yourself and are denying the Al-Mighty Himself. Just one quick qualifying point for anybody else following along - that's not a classicly Jewish approach to anything, to declare oneself as superior to one's forefathers and religious sages.
You're decending into rant and distortion. It's unbecoming. Stop it.
Feel free to show me where our sages interpret 7:3 differently. Until then, I'm content with reading 7:3 informed by 7:1-2. You?
And BTW, you refused to accept the Talmudic view on those pesukim earlier in this thread, or that the Talmud (our sages) are even a valid source. Now you're calling for me to give an example of the views of our sages? What changed in the last 15 minutes? You wouldn't be playing two sides of the same fence, now would you?
Fine you can quote the text, and it appears you even have an opinion on what it means. But how did you two come to a conclusion on what it means? It does not appear (and please correct me if I'm wrong) you used any Jewish sources as a guide. So what was your guide? Your confidence in yourself? A non-Jewish source? Pop culture? Secular academia?
Really, I'm just curious how one knows what anything in the Torah means if they refuse to use the benefit of 2,000 years worth of Jewish commentary?
The quote is not from a non Jewish source but my Hebrew/English Tanakh. I have an opinion based on what it says and it is clear on its meaning.
These is the story of the beginning of the conquest of Caanan and what G-d expected.
Issues found are
1. That Israel is entering a land already inhabited and the risk to the convantantal faith when they enter the land already populated.
What I did was read Deuteronomy 7:3 in the context of Deuterony 7:1-2. I'm sorry you find such an approach so difficult to accept. Again, feel free to offer a different interpretation more in line with your bias, but please let us know its basis.
Last edited by Jayhawker Soule; 07-03-2012 at 12:13 PM..
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