News, View from the Lab: Who is a Jew? DNA can hold the key.
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being Jewish is passed through the mother not the father. Reminding myself to ignore this thread. I will not get into a thread if all you want to do is hack to death what makes someone Jewish.....
But you see, Jazzymom. That is the very issue we are discussing. Does DNA make you Jewish? Is Jewish something that is racial or cultural? Are you saying that people who convert are not Jewish because their DNA does not indicate as such? Unlike being Black or Chinese or, in the alternative, being Catholic or Prodestant, being Jewish is not clearly defined as a race or religion. Therefore, how can you "test" for being Jewish if you maintain that Jewish-ness is a religion and NOT a race. This is the conflict. If you test DNA for race, then you have to throw religion out the window and vice versa.
That's an old story invented by, who would have imagined, Christians back in the middle ages as an excuse to go rampaging through Jewish neighborhoods, ransacking and murdering. You might not think so in our technological, 21st century world...but the Blood Libel hasn't disappeared completely. Allegedly, Jews use the blood of Christian children to make matzoh. (I can tell you as a Jew that it isn't true, but then if you already subscribed to that theory, you probably wouldn't believe me!)
I read the link, and I don't doubt that some idiot believes that junk.
That Blood-Libel thing is just nuts.
By the way...at our church we have grape juice and a stale cracker.
From everything that I've read about genetics and race it's my understanding that human beings are so closely related genetically that clear distinctions which could define one's race do not even exist. On top of that, Jews are not a separate racial group so I'm very skeptical of what the OP is trying to say. Every human being on this planet is related if you go back far enough in time and the ancestry of each and every one of us gets into millions of people from every part of the world once you get to about twenty generations or so. People tend to consider themselves as white, black or whatever based only on the most recent generations of their ancestors because they generally have those physical characteristics but that's really very deceiving. What this all boils down to from my perspective is that there is no DNA evidence that would put Jews into a separate category because they're just as interrelated to other human beings as the rest of us.
What this all boils down to from my perspective is that there is no DNA evidence that would put Jews into a separate category because they're just as interrelated to other human beings as the rest of us.
What genetics does tell us is that as an ethnic group, Jews, call it a tribe if you like, we can trace their linage to a particular origin.
Whether or not genetics can determine who is a Jew, by religion or culture is another matter altogether.
But you see, Jazzymom. That is the very issue we are discussing. Does DNA make you Jewish? Is Jewish something that is racial or cultural? Are you saying that people who convert are not Jewish because their DNA does not indicate as such? Unlike being Black or Chinese or, in the alternative, being Catholic or Prodestant, being Jewish is not clearly defined as a race or religion. Therefore, how can you "test" for being Jewish if you maintain that Jewish-ness is a religion and NOT a race. This is the conflict. If you test DNA for race, then you have to throw religion out the window and vice versa.
It's very complex.
20yrsinBranson
Dna does NOT make you Jewish, there are many Jews by choice... They do not share dna with anyone. Judaism is a religlion that happens to be either one you convert to or are born into....
But you see, Jazzymom. That is the very issue we are discussing. Does DNA make you Jewish? Is Jewish something that is racial or cultural? Are you saying that people who convert are not Jewish because their DNA does not indicate as such? Unlike being Black or Chinese or, in the alternative, being Catholic or Prodestant, being Jewish is not clearly defined as a race or religion. Therefore, how can you "test" for being Jewish if you maintain that Jewish-ness is a religion and NOT a race. This is the conflict. If you test DNA for race, then you have to throw religion out the window and vice versa.
It's very complex.
20yrsinBranson
I must be looking at this all wrong, because I fail to see the complexity. Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. So there can't be any such thing as "Jewish DNA." Hitler employed "scientists" who declared otherwise, but the fact remains that anyone from any ethnic background could choose to adopt Judaism as their religion. That should mean case closed...but something tells me it won't.
The dna testing does not tell if anyone is Jewish. It simply tells you if you have a dna marker. The markers can tell you what part of the world your ancestry comes from. It can tell you if you have Ashkenazi or sephardic markers. If you do that does not make you Jewish. It simply says you might have Jewish ancestry. You need to be born of a Jewish mother to be Jewish or convert.
Not according to YHWH's holy Word. Only the seed of Jacob are Israel, and that seed ends multiplying in a female born of Jacob's seed when she marries outside Jacob's line.
So a woman may be a true descendant of Jacob/Israel, from her father, an Israelite, but her children will not be of Jacob and will have no inheritance in Israel, the nation, in God's allotment, if her children are not from a seed of Jacob. Converts can be accepted into the religion, but they are not the seed of Jacob.
When the LORD returns, He sorts it all out in the wilderness, as Ezekiel 20:33-44 shows.
He will not leave one seed of Jacob in any nation on earth, when He gathers them up, for judging under His Rod of God, to enter into His promised land and the New Millennium.
Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as [corn] is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
Quote:
Eze 20:33-44 ¶ [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.
And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD.
¶ As for you, O house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; Go ye, serve ye every one his idols, and hereafter [also], if ye will not hearken unto me: but pollute ye my holy name no more with your gifts, and with your idols.
For in mine holy mountain, in the mountain of the height of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, there shall all the house of Israel, all of them in the land, serve me: there will I accept them, and there will I require your offerings, and the firstfruits of your oblations, with all your holy things.
I will accept you with your sweet savour, when I bring you out from the people, and gather you out of the countries wherein ye have been scattered; and I will be sanctified in you before the heathen.
And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I shall bring you into the land of Israel, into the country [for] the which I lifted up mine hand to give it to your fathers.
And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled; and ye shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed.
And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have wrought with you for my name's sake, not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
Not according to YHWH's holy Word. Only the seed of Jacob are Israel, and that seed ends multiplying in a female born of Jacob's seed when she marries outside Jacob's line.
So a woman may be a true descendant of Jacob/Israel, from her father, an Israelite, but her children will not be of Jacob and will have no inheritance in Israel, the nation, in God's allotment, if her children are not from a seed of Jacob. Converts can be accepted into the religion, but they are not the seed of Jacob.
When the LORD returns, He sorts it all out in the wilderness, as Ezekiel 20:33-44 shows.
He will not leave one seed of Jacob in any nation on earth, when He gathers them up, for judging under His Rod of God, to enter into His promised land and the New Millennium.
Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as [corn] is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
Converts have always been a part of Judaism and the model is in the story of Ruth and Naomi. There are many many Biblical examples of the foreigner being taken into the house of Israel and becoming part of the Jewish people.
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