Long ago on independence square (Kansas City, Rolla: areas, mayor, interior)

[MRG Dallas]

The area there where Simpson is, as you recalled, a lumber company. Geo. Ultch Lumber at 11432 Truman Rd.

[Mad Anthonie]

Greetings Railfans!

I think I can clarify the Fairmount rail lines. Coming out of NE KC that line was the northernmost of the the 3 that crossed Kentucky Road just north of Wilson Road. It ran into Fairmount, behind the businesses on the north side of Independence Ave (24 Hiway, more on that later), then crossed diagonally at the Chevy dealer. It continued SE, where it split just west of Northern, across from the old roller rink. One split curved E then N, wrapping behind the rink, then passing just west of the old Carlisle School, under 24 Hiway, and stayed west of Sterling into the old Standard Oil Refinery. I think it may have went clear through to the other mainline on the north side of the refinery. The other split continued southeast then east, crossing Sterling about 100 feet north Truman. It ran behind several businesses, with a small siding going into Ultch Lumber. Finally it curved NE into the water department.

I think in days before mine it continued on a NE then E run through Sally's old neighborhood. I can see a path through there, but I'll have to research that some more later.

Concerning Independence Avenue in Independence- portions of 24 Hiway share that name. The secret is to look at it on a map. 24 Hiway meanders, but Independence Ave maintains an E-W orientation.

[MRG Dallas]

Leave it to MAD to show us Railfans the light, the truth, the American Way. Thanks for that, I'll try to visualize it on a map on Tuesday.

So did the line pass that close to the old ball yard? I had this flashback of glancing down at my third base coach and seeing RR tracks adjacent to left field (ie., east). Was that vision real, or was it Memorex?

[Mad Anthonie]

Originally Posted by WCHS'59

This would surely have to be a part of Independence that the average person never sees.

I am guessing this is near Noland Road.

The street level crossing would appear to be 31st Street.




Railfan Exchange III, Part 2 Rock Creek Jct, Indep. 11-8-02 - YouTube

Your guess is several miles off. For the best view of this location use www.Bing.com/maps and search for 39.111873, -94.475132 and use "Bird's Eye" view.

That is my best guesstimate for the location of the videographer. While there if you move slightly east you'll see Rock Creek, for which this junction is named. The dual track line is the Union Pacific, the single line that splits to the south is now KC Southern (formerly lots of RRs, including Chicago & Alton). Just east of the creek on the north side of the tracks you'll find remnants of the old rail line discussed in other posts.

Originally Posted by MRG Dallas

Leave it to MAD to show us Railfans the light, the truth, the American Way. Thanks for that, I'll try to visualize it on a map on Tuesday.

So did the line pass that close to the old ball yard? I had this flashback of glancing down at my third base coach and seeing RR tracks adjacent to left field (ie., east). Was that vision real, or was it Memorex?

Yes, it ran along the east side of the ball field, and the east side of the Sugar Creek Pool. While on Bing maps from the above link you can move east and see some remnants of that line.

[WCHS'59]

After putting my thinking cap on, one of those branch rail lines running through Fairmount ran right behind Charlies Market in Fairmount and in front of their rear parking area between Huttig and Ash.

[WCHS'59]

Our home in Independence was on Harkless Street about 1.2 miles southeast of the square.

When I was around ten or so, I went out to play in the front yard on one summer day. I had not been out too long when I heard a clear and crisp voice say, “Hello.” I looked around thinking it was the postman or some other delivery man but there was no one in sight. After looking again, I could see no one so I went back to play. Rather soon I again heard “Hello.” Again, I could see no one and then I started thinking that one of my neighborhood playmates was hiding somewhere trying to play a trick on me.

This went on for a couple days and one evening I heard my parents talking to a neighbor and they were conversing about someone in the neighborhood shouting “Hello” and then disappearing.

Not too much later, my dad came walking into the house with a big cage holding a Myna bird. My dad and a neighbor had captured it in a tree in the neighbor’s yard. How they were able to get near it I don’t have a clue. The neighbor had a large cage and he suggested my dad keep it for a while and then they would take it for a while. This went one for a period and I do not remember what finally happened to it. It was one large and messy bird.

The Myna had apparently escaped from somewhere and found our neighborhood to its liking. The bird had a pretty extensive vocabulary and my dad got it to say “Hello, Jack.” To my knowledge the bird never did say anything profane. The bird’s favorite word was “hello” and it would say that many times a day.

Up until that time the only bird that I was aware of that could talk was a parrot.

I am just now wondering if that Myna might have been purchased by someone from Katz Drug Store as that place sold a variety of animals and birds.

[WCHS'59]

Originally Posted by Mad Anthonie

Your guess is several miles off. For the best view of this location use www.Bing.com/maps and search for 39.111873, -94.475132 and use "Bird's Eye" view.

That is my best guesstimate for the location of the videographer. While there if you move slightly east you'll see Rock Creek, for which this junction is named. The dual track line is the Union Pacific, the single line that splits to the south is now KC Southern (formerly lots of RRs, including Chicago & Alton). Just east of the creek on the north side of the tracks you'll find remnants of the old rail line discussed in other posts.

Good show, MAD. Rock Creek also went close by my guess for the location, chuckle.

Delorme Maps even had the Rock Creek Junction labeled where you had it pinpointed. That was apparently the Kentucky Road crossing in the background.

[WCHS'59]

Originally Posted by Mad Anthonie

Concerning Independence Avenue in Independence- portions of 24 Hiway share that name. The secret is to look at it on a map. 24 Hiway meanders, but Independence Ave maintains an E-W orientation.

I have been looking for portions of Highway 24 labeled as Independence Avenue in Independence.

I went down to street level looking at the green street signs and found only one intersection that designated Highway 24 as Independence Ave and that was at Sterling and Highway 24.


All the intersections to the west of Sterling have either “Route 24” or “US 24 Highway” as the street name. I checked the first intersection east of Sterling and it also has “US 24 Highway.” I am assuming all the others east of 24 are also designated that way.

As mentioned, when I worked at Charlie’s Market in Fairmount it was on Independence Avenue, however Charlie's former site is now on “Route 24” according to the street sign at Huttig and 24 and Ash and 24.

It does not make much sense for that one intersection at Sterling to be labeled Independence Avenue and all the others to be labeled Highway 24, chuckle.


Do you know what control Sugar Creek has over the Sterling intersectlon?

[Mad Anthonie]

Originally Posted by WCHS'59

I have been looking for portions of Highway 24 labeled as Independence Avenue in Independence.

I went down to street level looking at the green street signs and found only one intersection that designated Highway 24 as Independence Ave and that was at Sterling and Highway 24.


All the intersections to the west of Sterling have either “Route 24” or “US 24 Highway” as the street name. I checked the first intersection east of Sterling and it also has “US 24 Highway.” I am assuming all the others east of 24 are also designated that way.

As mentioned, when I worked at Charlie’s Market in Fairmount it was on Independence Avenue, however Charlie's former site is now on “Route 24” according to the street sign at Huttig and 24 and Ash and 24.

It does not make much sense for that one intersection at Sterling to be labeled Independence Avenue and all the others to be labeled Highway 24, chuckle.


Do you know what control Sugar Creek has over the Sterling intersectlon?

It would take a library visit to see if Polk's shows the business addressed as 24 Hiway or Independence Ave. All the roadway and traffic signals on 24 Hiway are under MODOT control. The street signs are courtesy Independence, none of the roadway is in Sugar Creek, the city limits are 100 feet north of 24 Hiway, but my fuzzy memory doesn't recall if that was from centerline or right of way. In my dispatch days I had all of those memorized, due to the occasional jurisdictional dispute with the neighboring departments.

[WCHS'59]

Originally Posted by Mad Anthonie

It would take a library visit to see if Polk's shows the business addressed as 24 Hiway or Independence Ave. All the roadway and traffic signals on 24 Hiway are under MODOT control. The street signs are courtesy Independence, none of the roadway is in Sugar Creek, the city limits are 100 feet north of 24 Hiway, but my fuzzy memory doesn't recall if that was from centerline or right of way. In my dispatch days I had all of those memorized, due to the occasional jurisdictional dispute with the neighboring departments.

All of the references to the intersection at Sterling in the City of Independence web site are to Sterling Avenue and Highway 24. There is no reference to Independence Avenue and Sterling that I could find. This may be more of the street and address confusion in the city.